Steel vs. Carbon Dilemma
 

(Oops...Dilemma. Stupid spell check.)

After a loooong time waiting (procrastinating) I've finally finished my dissertation and to celebrate I'm going to pick up a second road bike. I had been thinking of getting a SuperSix, but part of me wants a nice steel. The Gunnar Roadie or Sport look nice. Unfortunately, I can't test ride one of these to see how it rides. I know people who have them will say they are great, but I'm looking for more concrete details. What's great? How would they compare to the SuperSix? Feedback from anyone who has ridden both (or at least a similar bike) would be great.

I'm basically wanting a smoother riding but still fast and quick to respond bike. The SuperSix fits the bill perfectly but part of me wants steel - basically a stiff, fast steel frame to rival the carbons. Does it exist and in the $1000 range (frame only)?

If I go steel, my thinking is to get a Gunnar and build up with Force. Overkill for steel or perfect?

Thanks.

Steel is not going to be "stiff" "fast" or "responsive" at all compared to carbon. It will be "slow" "plush" and "heavy". Carbon performs better all around than steel but some people might say that it can "break".

****

****? Really? We lock threads seeking honest, reliable feedback about bikes? I'm not trolling. I've listed specific bikes I'm interested in and seeking feedback.

I have a nice steel bike and I know it will last forever and I don't have to worry about it cracking, exploding or any of that other crap people say carbon bikes do...

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeej440/s...s/DSC_0164.JPG

...I know this because I ride it once or twice a year, otherwise it hangs on the wall in my home. It hangs there because my carbon bike is lighter (a lot), stiffer yet quiets bumps and vibrations better. I have both and choose the carbon bike 99.9% of the time...the steel bike goes out to show it off.

I've never ridden a gunnar but I have ridden lots of steel bikes.

I just picked up a supersix with rival. The best description I can come up with is that it feels very damp compared to steel or aluminum. The handling is very sharp but bumps feel dull and I can see why people say carbon can feel dead. When you really put power down, it is great however.

Aside from your assertion that some people might say that it can break, everything else you just wrote is the biggest crock of poop I've ever seen so succinctly crammed into a three-sentence post.

To the OP: You said "part of me wants a nice steel" but then you listed a couple Gunnar models. I guess it depends on how nice you mean by "nice". A Cannondale SuperSix is a very nice carbon bike by nearly any measure; whereas a Gunnar Roadie is a nice steel bike only in the modest, non-perjorative sense of the word. It's a nice bike. It's not a great bike. The Cannondale (presuming it fits and is well-apportioned) is a great bike.

iow, apples to oranges.

It has nothing to do with you. You asked a perfectly acceptable question. This is why I said "****":

It's only going to get worse.

Thanks. That's precisely the kind of info I'm looking for.

Oh, I see. It's BF so acceptable questions are not acceptable. What was I thinking.

that EM is a beauty. it's funny how now you pull out the steel bike to show off...

If your not spending godly amounts of cash on a carbon bike you can get a very nice and still light steel frame. Check out English Cycles on what he can do with fillet brazed steel frames. The bike below is 11.8 lbs. I ride a custom steel lugged frame I built myself with 11spd Campy Chorus and Reynold Solitude wheels at just over 16lbs for a 48cm frame. Plus if I crash and something gets damaged it can be reasonably be repaired to what Calfee or someone would charge. Mind you I had a carbon road bike also but went back to steel.
http://www.englishcycles.com/wp-cont...na-150x150.jpg
http://www.englishcycles.com/customb...-road-bike-v2/

My bike
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...geVelo/015.jpg

Actually, the Roadie is a very nice road bike. It seems like you're basing this on cost and steel is cheaper, hence the Roadie is cheaper. A nice thing about a Roadie is that for a few hundred more, he could make it nicer by getting it custom-built for his body which goes a long way in making the rider faster and more comfortable.

If you're saying that a Sachs, Zoncanado or IF bike would be a better steel bike, you're right, but those will also be customs. Another option would be a Serotta stock which would be more expensive than the Gunnar, but have some nicer finishes etc. Then there's the thought of going with a smaller builder that's producing nice bikes, but has slightly lower prices like Dornbox Bikes. Incredible bikes that he builds for a steal.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=226527

Listen to what everyone here opines,
but before you spend a dime,
put in some actual riding time,
then make up your mind.
:thumb:

I had a steel bike back in the day, but the frame got damaged in a crash, and LBS "condemned" it. It was a comfy ride, but felt dead, and not as comfortable as my carbon bike. Of course, that's probably more to do with the engineering in the particular bikes, and less to do with the materials involved.

You can get a light steel bike, but it probably won't be cheap.

i believe you just backed up his point. the OP is comparing a very nice carbon bike to a still nice (but not top of the range) steel bike. on price. i am not sure where the OP is getting a supersix frame at 1k.

My feeling is, it comes down to what you want to do with the bike. Once you decide this, a lot of the other questions kind of answer themselves.

For example, I bought an aluminum frame because I'm going to race on it. Once I decided the primary purpose of the bike, an aluminum frame made the most sense: it's light, stiff, has racy geo, and can perhaps better survive the inevitable hard crashes. If it does break, it's cheaper than the carbon frames I would want to race on. Probably it is much less comfortable than nice carbon, but seeing as how I've ridden it on several 200km brevets I guess it's comfy enough. 25s and reasonable pressures help a lot I think.

When I was just doing the brevets and other shorter, but still fairly long rides I rode steel. It's cheap and comfy and sporty and the weight is irrelevant. About the only scenarios that would make me buy carbon is a real surplus of money, or a serious interest in long stage races.

first off, this post is wildly uninformed, and totally worthless. dismiss it promptly.

Second, if you are serious about wanting to get into a nice steel bike, i suggest you research some of the custom frame builders that may (or may not) be local to you. there are a whole new wave of very skilled people making custom steel frames these days, and you would be surprised what you can get for your $$. find someone in your price range with a good reputation based on customer feedback and give that person a call to discuss exactly what you are looking for, and you may very well end up with the best bike you have ever owned.

that said, the used high end bike market is very good for buyers right now. surfing ebay and other outlets, you can easily find a very high end steel bicycle for good prices, which may be your best bet.

I feel the same for the carbon plastic bike as I do the Bic pens, disposable razors, Cricket lighters, plastic sporks, paper cups, Swatch watches, and boxed wine. They serve a purpose in a high-tech disposable society.

But when I want something quality I prefer a Montblanc, Schick Safety, Standard Zippo, stainless flatware, a heavy beer mug, a vintage Timex and nice bottled wine.

You've obviously never owned a ultra high end carbon bike then. A custom Parlee, Spin, or even a Look 695 or R5 CA is like a work of art

What doesn't feel dead is aluminum, another option in the non-carbon arena.

PS--That is one nice bike HenryIII !

So you're saying steel is a good choice for alcoholics?

Gunnar steel frames are around $1000. The supersix is built and is around $2300 (the one I found) so I'm thinking about $1,300 to build up the steel if I go that route (not counting wheels which I have) gives me roughly the same cost for the complete bike.

Take a fine bronze sculpture by a famous artist. Now have him cast the same thing in plastic. What's it worth?

I've owned and ridden some real nice steel bikes. I wouldn't get one over a SuperSix, but that's just me. I don't think a Gunnar is equivalent to a SuperSix. I would say that a Pegoretti is a closer match. A real nice steel bike is definitely a keeper, but if I had the choice, I'd go for Cf race frame.

So a nearly equivalent steel frame is double the cost of carbon? I was sort of thinking it should be cheaper though not precisely equivalent given inherent differences in the materials.

Thanks for the info re the gunnar vs supersix.