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Fibromyalgia Advise

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Fibromyalgia Advise

Old 11-16-11, 06:31 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Focuspokus View Post
Facts are that 90% of FMS patients are women and up to 75% are overweight to obese. These are facts. I work at a rehab facility where we see all kinds of patients (ortho, cardiac and all others). The majority of FMS patients we see are obese women who have had multiple joint replacement surgeries which they see as a panacea for their aches and pains when it was their weight that contributed to their need for surgery in many cases. None make concerted efforts to lose the weight after surgery and several have come back for subsequent surgeries. They are medicated to the maximum for pain. Yes, we have legitimate osteoarthritis patients who are runners, cyclists that need joint replacements, but many of our obese patients require joint replacement surgeries because of 40+ years of carrying around an extra 150 +lbs on their 5' 11" inch or smaller frames.

Have a 400lb woman now with FMS, CHF, COPD on continuous O2 and sleeps with BiPap. Nurses do accuchek for blood sugar, give her her Novolog and before they are out of room, she's reaching for chocolate candy. She is not atypical from what we see. Now you can say it was her FMS that led to her obesity blah blah blah, but if you are on a cycling forum and know the importance of remaining healthy, then you know that obesity is the gateway to an early grave.

I find that many people seek a "reason" (ie. diagnosis) to justify the state they are in rather than accept the fact that they are contributing to their own demise. Even if the FMS is a legitimate diagnosis, why would someone contribute to their own debilitation? Well, you can further rationalize and say it is depression caused by general medical condition which spirals into bad habits. Blah blah blah.

Look, we aren't talking about something that isn't controllable like Parkinsons, Lymphoma or ALS. As I asked earlier, if 22 year old fit, active adults with healthy diets were the primary group to have Fibromyalgia, then I would be more sympathetic, but that isn't the case and you as physicians know this. And to think that physicians don't overprescribe pain medications to patients to appease them is naive. These patients more often suffer from joint pain, generalized back pain etc and are given pain meds with their FMS.

I always tell people that we are only as good as our genetic blueprint and you cannot necessarily extend your life past whatever is in the cards for us even for the fittest of the fit. (ie. Jim Fixx) However, we can surely reduce our lifespan with bad habits and waste whatever genetic potential there was
.
Those may be YOUR facts, but those are not necessarily THE facts. Your setting is only one of many. A lot of people with FM look alot different than yours. We've all seen those patients you describe, but they're train-wrecks, not typical of everyone with FM.

And FWIW, it's a shame your surgeons don't have the balls to refuse to operate on these patients, or at the very least insist on narcotic analgesic detox before agreeing to do these sugeries.
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Old 11-16-11, 06:33 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by christ0ph View Post
I think its simple, mold makes people sick. Its not baroreceptors, often its mold. Mold and formaldehyde..They need to deal with that. If you just paint it over and dont remove the effected sheetrock and clean out the wall cavities and replace it, if they just leave delaminating OSB in there everybody who lives in that building for decades is going to get effected by it, even amounts smaller than you can even see or measure affordably are going to make the immune system go crazy, never get a rest, and around a quarter of them will get really, really sick.

Zillions of houses have been forclosed, some of them sit for months with broken pipes, etc, leaks, etc, and they just paint them over and resell them, That is going to cause MAJOR health problems. Soon.

It already is.
Really? How much mold is enough to make someone sick?
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Old 11-16-11, 06:36 PM
  #128  
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DLPA is a good pain reliever, and it is natural and a food. The D part simply allows your own pain relievers (not drugs, you body makes them itself) to work better, the L part is l-phenylalanine an essential amino acid and a precursor of dopamine and norepinephrine (so it also may reduce some kinds of depression, and improve executive function)

People who have major joint problems should also look into resveratrol, which seems to help preserve and renbuid cartilage and studies are showing it seems to help improve the healh of the material that makes up the intervertebral disk..

But it may also reduce measures of illness making it hard to get help when you remain sick, doctors now dont see you as sick if you are not in a near crisis situation. They dont take you at face value when you explain how you are maning your health issues, and they wont read papers you give them, citing time issues. In short, America is doomed unless we get a new outlook on health and the medical profession.


Originally Posted by surgeonstone View Post
There is in FMS an increase sensitization within the CNS that leads to the chronic pain and narcotics compound this effect. It is amazing how many people I have had that were addicted to narcotics for what they thought, were reasonable issues and found that once off the narcotics, their pain was gone.
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Old 11-16-11, 06:43 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Focuspokus View Post
Facts are that 90% of FMS patients are women and up to 75% are overweight to obese. These are facts. I work at a rehab facility where we see all kinds of patients (ortho, cardiac and all others). The majority of FMS patients we see are obese women who have had multiple joint replacement surgeries which they see as a panacea for their aches and pains when it was their weight that contributed to their need for surgery in many cases. None make concerted efforts to lose the weight after surgery and several have come back for subsequent surgeries. They are medicated to the maximum for pain. Yes, we have legitimate osteoarthritis patients who are runners, cyclists that need joint replacements, but many of our obese patients require joint replacement surgeries because of 40+ years of carrying around an extra 150 +lbs on their 5' 11" inch or smaller frames.

Have a 400lb woman now with FMS, CHF, COPD on continuous O2 and sleeps with BiPap. Nurses do accuchek for blood sugar, give her her Novolog and before they are out of room, she's reaching for chocolate candy. She is not atypical from what we see. Now you can say it was her FMS that led to her obesity blah blah blah, but if you are on a cycling forum and know the importance of remaining healthy, then you know that obesity is the gateway to an early grave.

I find that many people seek a "reason" (ie. diagnosis) to justify the state they are in rather than accept the fact that they are contributing to their own demise. Even if the FMS is a legitimate diagnosis, why would someone contribute to their own debilitation? Well, you can further rationalize and say it is depression caused by general medical condition which spirals into bad habits. Blah blah blah.

Look, we aren't talking about something that isn't controllable like Parkinsons, Lymphoma or ALS. As I asked earlier, if 22 year old fit, active adults with healthy diets were the primary group to have Fibromyalgia, then I would be more sympathetic, but that isn't the case and you as physicians know this. And to think that physicians don't overprescribe pain medications to patients to appease them is naive. These patients more often suffer from joint pain, generalized back pain etc and are given pain meds with their FMS.

I always tell people that we are only as good as our genetic blueprint and you cannot necessarily extend your life past whatever is in the cards for us even for the fittest of the fit. (ie. Jim Fixx) However, we can surely reduce our lifespan with bad habits and waste whatever genetic potential there was.
Good points here and I agree with most of what you have said. I think it dangerous though, to generalize too much and as I have said, that they are overweight or obese does not mean they do not have a real disease that is very tough to live with.
I have a very close friend who has suffered with FMS for over a decade. She was the hardest working nurse I knew, weighs 135 at 5'8", and will not take any narcotics. Now this women has been almost incapacitated by FMS yet she drives on, working and doing what she needs to control this disease. I know many FMS patients that are like this. I also know many like you have described. We know that obesity may increase the risk for FMS, but I really think many become obese because they can't move, they gain weight from the medicines they are on (Lyrica and many of the SSRI's used in FMS will cause significant weight), and a positive feedback cycle emerges that perpetuates the problem.
Our jobs as physicians is to take nothing for granted, treat each person as the unique individual they are and to listen, then listen some more. If I lump them together as a bunch of fat female drug addicts with psychiatric problems then I have failed, failed in my oath, failed in my person and failed in my profession.
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Old 11-16-11, 06:45 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by DScott View Post
Those may be YOUR facts, but those are not necessarily THE facts. Your setting is only one of many. A lot of people with FM look alot different than yours. We've all seen those patients you describe, but they're train-wrecks, not typical of everyone with FM.

And FWIW, it's a shame your surgeons don't have the balls to refuse to operate on these patients, or at the very least insist on narcotic analgesic detox before agreeing to do these sugeries.
"not necessarily" the facts???? You just don't want to concede because the statistics don't lie. Resource after resource states 90% are women and far majority are overweight to obese.
Causes of this condition is still unknown, many experts are researching the relationship between menopause and fibromyalgia. Most women are diagnosed with this condition between the ages of 40 to 55 which is when menopause usually occurs, and approximately 85%-90% of all reported Fibromyalgia conditions are women.

Read more: https://automailer.com/tws/fibromyalg...#ixzz1dv1IYMTp

A study published in December 2008 found that 45 percent of people with fibromyalgia were obese. Another 28 percent were overweight.
https://health.msn.com/health-topics/...ntid=100244059
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20542742
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Old 11-16-11, 06:47 PM
  #131  
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To push someone into mold illness it usually takes a lot - but that happens all the time because landlords often just paint over mold, they dont remove it, and also because of the cost ofe heating, people keep windows shut and many houses have had mold problems that were never cleaned up. New US houses dont have HRVs like Canadian houses do, and they are tight. Many houses dont have working kitchen and bathroom ventilation. There is also a big problem with pipes, biofilms, shower heads and so called NTM, nontuberculous mycobacteria. People are getting sick from NTMs and never diagnosed, NTMs infest water systems. They may recover and get reinfected. Mold will effect your immune system, thats the first insult, and then you start picking up other illnesses, they add up one on top of another.

Thats what I think "FM" really is, multiple opportunistic infections - many with a possible climate change (mold, extreme weather) related or xenobiotic related or stress related etiology.

Black mold.. stachybotrys chartarum..

Trichothecenes are potent in the nanogram range and they have been shown to be stable up to 500 degrees. It takes strong bleach - stronger than many people think, 15 minutes, and hard scrubbing to get it off of wood. Sheetrock and porous items its pretty much impossible, it shoud be torn out and replaced, not repainted.

People need a long period of total avoidance to recover, in some areas, thats almost impossible. The best months are when there is snow on the ground.

Composting operations put tons of aspergillus spores into the air and the lungs must mobilize a single macrophage cell to phagocytose each spore to prevent it from germinating. The body has a finite amount of them, they can be used up. I think it causes something called immunosenescene. The so called Hayflick limit.

At various times the earth has been basically taken over by mold. The so called fungal spike.. For a while it was thought it was total, but recently the fungal spike takeover idea was discredited because it became clear that small areas escaped it, it was not total destruction. Life on the planet was reseeded from those areas.

I think the worst death and destruction was simply a matter of the above factors and immunosenescence, the various animals simply could not repair the damage fast enough.

Originally Posted by DScott View Post
Really? How much mold is enough to make someone sick?

Last edited by christ0ph; 11-16-11 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 11-16-11, 06:51 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Focuspokus View Post
many experts are researching the relationship between menopause and fibromyalgia. Most women are diagnosed with this condition between the ages of 40 to 55 which is when menopause usually occurs, and approximately 85%-90% of all reported Fibromyalgia conditions are women.

A study published in December 2008 found that 45 percent of people with fibromyalgia were obese. Another 28 percent were overweight.
Do some reading on the intimate relationship between stress and obesity. Dont play the blame the victim game. Also persistent organic pollutants, bisphenol a, and dioxins cause hormonal imbalance. Lead causes systemic inflammation.

Mercury uses up our glutathione stores. Also Restraint stress - similar to job stress, the rat race, the race to the bottom causes corticosteroids to be released, effecting the immune system, causing neuroimmunological effects including inflammation and obesity.

I'm just curious, is it the insurers who keep pushing down the legal standard of care? Or ERISA?

Last edited by christ0ph; 11-16-11 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 11-16-11, 06:58 PM
  #133  
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Money is tight these days and the money seems to be flowing to scientists who can figure out ways to blame problems caused by pollution and various xenobiotics, man made chemicals in products, blame them on the victims genetics. Just like before they made the connection between tobacco and cancer, it looked like genetics.. Many of these chemicals are in wide use, almost everybody is exposed to them, so its easy for the confusers to confuse.

But the evidence is piling up. One of the best resources on xenobiotics is EHP, a journal - Environmental Health Perspectives. Pubmed Central has a lot of good full text papers.
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Old 11-16-11, 07:05 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
Diseases are well-defined entities with either a known etiology or at least a widely agreed upon set of diagnostic criteria.

Syndromes are a group of related signs and symptoms which may or may not share a common etiology.

Fibromyalgia is a syndrome, which means that sufferers may or may not have a common set of causes. Often as medical science progresses, what appears to be "a syndrome" ends up representing a variety of different diseases.
.....
I believe the FS is likely to represent a variety of different disorders, which is why there is no uniform, standard therapy. But I might be wrong.
Corporations are taking over the gateways to what is real in the US, to whats accepted as real. Money decides what science is seen as true. The insurance industry has decided that it doesn't want Americans to get imaging and diagnostic tests. They dont want to accept information that points to the causes of illness, because then they have to treat it. Try them and see. They dont want to know.

I stand by my opinion hat its a made up syndrome that is being used, like "chronic fatigue syndrome" to cut off aid to people who often have a very simple illness, say, an infection, or a virus, or a vector borne illness, or often, several, that ten or twenty years they would have done the work and found, no drama, but now the system is writing off 3/4 of America and it just wants to walk away from them, and its finding ways to do it.

Last edited by christ0ph; 11-16-11 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 11-16-11, 07:08 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by surgeonstone View Post
Well, unlike you apparently, I listen to my patients and resort to peer reviewed journals and not the Huffington post. Did it ever occur to you that FM patients are overweight because of their inability to work out from the disabling pain?
It bothers me that they seem to ignore the many probable reasons why they are sick.. Do they culture their synovial fluid or do PCR and look for the potential pathogen? No.

What about their dental health, look at that as a cause of septic arthriitis? (curable with antibiotics) No.

Do they try empirical antibiotic therapy? No.

Do they try resveratrol for their joints? No.

Rich people get such different medicine than working people that now they are building many imaging facilities with effective "colored and white" branches, separate entrances and exits, so the two groups rich and HMO insured, will use separete waiting rooms. And especially won't compare treatments.. They make patients wear RFID bracelets to ensure they wont class mix..

Last edited by christ0ph; 11-16-11 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 11-16-11, 07:10 PM
  #136  
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Do a search on PubMed on mercury flux or mercury cycling. See if you can find a map showing the mercury concentrations in air and water around the US. Its an eye opener.

There is no way that is not making people sick.
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Old 11-16-11, 07:53 PM
  #137  
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It turns out that Americans seem to have fewer, far fewer illnesses than Europeans.

But they are no healthier, far from it. Does anyone have an idea why that might be true?
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Old 11-16-11, 08:08 PM
  #138  
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Christoph, have you considered writing a book. Or at least a blog?
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Old 11-16-11, 09:45 PM
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This thread has evolved far away from the OP's initial request for help with muscle cramps while cycling.

It's now closed.
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