Was there something new here or is this an "un-necessary" revival----?

Newbie here... I'm new to this site, but not new to bikes or bike forums.

To the point of the original post "Okay....so why is BB30 such crap?" Well, I'm getting that lesson right now. I bought a Felt Z85 in September. In the spring, I started getting loud cracking/creaking noises - the BB30 needed a rebuild in May after 725 miles (shop covered it). I did take the bike on a 30 mile ride in the pouring rain, but it should be able to handle that, right? Fast forward to July, and the cracking/creaking noises are back - after some more wet miles. Shop said the BB30 is done, not rebuildable. After 1,200 miles of riding. That, that right there, that is crap!

The shop will replace at no cost, but why the hell would I do that?!?! To have to replace again less than a year? Or just make it a 'dry-ride' only bike?

So, I'm looking at a BB conversion and a new crackset, on a bike with only 1,200 miles on it. Not the upgrade I was planning to spend money on (really wanted to upgrade the wheels).

As a reference, my daily commuter (Kona Dew Drop) has well over 10,000 miles, all on the original BB. I ride it in all conditions (wet, snow, ice); in fact, last month I did the Westside Dirty Benjamin, 100-mile gravel ride, and it was pouring rain. It would be hard to give a BB worse conditions that 100 miles of wet gravel. The Kona, and it's BB, had no problems.

You don't need a new BB and crank, you need a new shop that knows how to install a BB30 system. PM [MENTION=88222]Campag4life[/MENTION] to get the full low down on what needs to be done and what your shop is doing wrong. Nothing likely needed/needs rebuilding, just reinstalling with green Loctite. When it's done right, it works right.

I'll get some pics of the BB30 later this week and share the condition.

I've been working with the same shop for 15 years - I have a lot of faith in their work. They are not perfect and don't know everything (i.e. I won't use them for a detailed bike fitting). However, they are aware of their limits and will tell me what they can't handle.

To the point of 'crap', when the BB is so difficult to install a well-seasoned mechanic can't do it right.... Well that seems crappy to me.

Felt is going back to a threaded bb on some of their 2015 bikes, stay tuned!

It is not hard. Anyone can do it. You just have to follow the directions and use the Loctite. If you don't do that, you will fail. It is like grease. No one doubts you need grease on bearings. Why fight against Loctite to firm up the BB30?

BTW - the new bike comes to the shop with the BB installed by the factory... So the factory clearly failed to install the BB correctly too.

If you can make the BB30 work for you, great. However, I have no faith in the product and I am not alone. Lastly, from the post above, Felt sounds like they have lost faith too. "Felt is going back to a threaded bb on some of their 2015 bikes, stay tuned!"

+1

I think the bike frame manufacturers need to be more accomodating to rider preference. Especially with the current carbon bikes, the marketing for stiffer and strong BB is hogwash. They have reached the point for those of who aren't Peter Sagan, BB30, BB90 or whatever new standard these companies up with or making them wider isn't going to make a difference if the stiffness is already beyond our capabilities.

I'm a fan of Shimano and their cranks. I don't see why I should have to look for adapters and buy new press fit tools... when Shimano's external BB is already more than what I need in terms of strength, stiffness etc. I don't see why it would be a problem for these companies to make bikes compatible with more than one standard.

I do like that Pinarello is standing by the Italian threading instead of delving into this BB90 hogwash.

Would be nice if the bike industry would stick to standards. Like companies that use proprietary seatposts rather than using the standard 27.2 or whatever other sizes.

Seriously, can you name one person you know who actually would notice any improvements from using a proprietary aero seatpost? It's getting moronic IMO.

+1

FWIW, aero seatposts are worse than BB30. Aero seatposts suck because they are stiffer than a standard round 27.2mm post and also because you are stuck with whatever seatpost clamp comes on the proprietary post. BB30 is good for those that know what they are doing and bad for those that don't. BB30 is cheap and easy to replace and of course stiff and light. If you aren't technically smart, there are many BB's like Praxis...or you can press in a semi permanent BSA sleeve that will mount to BB30 that don't require adapters and work with an English threaded crank like Shimano or Campy. PF30 is actually more technically challenged because plastic bushings aren't as robust as alloy cups inserted in carbon BB30 shells. Specialized for 2015 has in fact discontinued their version of PF30 for that reason.

l love aero seatposts, coz every time I change the height I don't have to make sure the saddle is straight. ha. :D
I have a dodgy back, so I often adjust the height.

When your frame has a carbon bb shell that is going to have the alloy bb30 cups pressed in directly, isn't it more likely to get damaged versus pf30 plastic cups getting pressed in directly to a carbon shell?

Basically you defined the essence of why PF30 exists...or in the case of Specialized, existed as in past tense. But there is a problem.
First BB30 can endure probably 1000 bearing change repetitions without tossing the frame out. How many BB30 bearing changes will be performed over a frames life? Most probably will never see 50 bearing changes. What happens when you change the bearings on a BB30? Not much. Knock them out and push new bearings in. Wear to BB30 bores is negligible. But the point is, you don't need a press fit to keep BB30 bearings quiet. A slip fit will do. You need an adhesive like green Loctite. So why did Specialized toss their version of PF30? Because Delrin is a 'questionable' bearing bore material. It doesn't have nearly the yield strength of Al alloy and a higher modulus of elasticity. The so called benefit of PF30 is the bushings can be tossed. But think about it. When you knock out Delrin PF30 bushings, they are direct press to carbon and carbon intrinsically has poor abrasion resistance...so there is 'minor' risk of carbon BB shell wear over time thereby reducing press to Delrin bushings. This again is mitigated by using an adhesive which make the Delrin bushings much stronger...effectively turning them into a Delrin/carbon composite. Specialized in fact in the end spec'ed epoxy between carbon BB and Delrin bushing OD. So arguments from a design standpoint for PF30 are a bit weak. The design is bit 'needy' and I am pretty confident that Specialized ditched it on their flagship S-works bikes because of customer complaints and warranty cost. BB30 is quite robust and any decent wrench can change BB30 bearings in 20 minutes and they are 5 bux a piece for ABEC-3 quality. Btw, frame manufacturing cost is part of the equation as well. BB30 has a couple of extra steps and a bit more content with an inserted alloy bore cylinder.

Yeah but you have a dodgy back because that single bolt clamp used on many aero posts keeps slipping. ;)

I posted this before but I'll do it here. Brand new my Focus (FSA Energy BB30) had some minor annoying ticking every now and then by 1500 miles it was creaking bad. I pulled the cranks off, cleaned up everything best I could with the bearings in but it still creaked. This is what I did, and it did not include Loctite:

Remove crank and bearings
Clean everything incl. BB shell
Put crank and bearings in freezer for a couple of hours
Put gobs of Park grease in BB shell, get c-clips lubed good
Install frozen bearings, grease them inside and out first, they go in easy when frozen
Allow bearings to warm up and expand inside the shell
Install frozen crank, grease spindle first, it will go in easy, grease the wave washer (I greased the crank bolt threads as well)
TORQUE TO EXACT FSA SPEC. It felt like it should be tighter but no. If it's even slightly tighter than spec it will creak as I learned
I waited awhile to let the crank get to room temp before I did a test ride

The bike is now past 4000 miles and I've never heard a peep from the cranks since. Still on the original bearings. I'm not an engineer so I don't know if freezing the parts and letting them expand after install did anything except make them easier to install, but who knows. Worked for me.

Honestly, that is about their frame vendor and not the concept of BB30.

Cannondale ran this for years before it spread out into the industry. It has been proven to be fine (with a caveat) but the assembly factory needs to know how to work with it.

Having said that, we push for PF30 wherever possible as I feel it gives the benefit of BB30 but illuminates any possible problems.

That sounds like UCI talk to me. Smilie face.

The only problem with "standards" is that it limits design and possible innovation. This is a double edged sword, I would agree, but it has yielded some good results. For instance, handlebar dia have all settled out at 31.8 which was a "standard" that came about as an innovation and was a non-standard size in the beginning.

Larger dia tubes allow for lighter weight and stiffer bikes but require larger dia seat posts, and fr der clamps to make it work (and look right). These were all non-standard at one point and have become standardized over time. Now we have three sizes instead of one (and braze-on which I think is always the answer).

Headsets went from 1" threaded to the 1/8-1/4 integrated we see now (or 1/8-1.5). This saved some weight, added some simplicity and opened up the HT of the bike for possible design innovation.

The various BB specs will settle out over the next few years until we have two or, more likely three that designers can chose from. We are just in an awkward period of transition right now that is the downside of this process.

OK. You make a fine point. The BB30 isn't the whole issue, Felt owns it's share of this problem too. I've worked with enough designers and engineers over the years to know - Felt's design/engineer team did a poor job working with Shimano's team.

It's not Felts design team. The spec for the BB are set (not by Shinano). It is about the factory making the frames. I've worked with them. And I mean this in the past tense. We aren't there any longer.

I understand. I worked with Specialized R&D ~10 years ago, one of the main issue I remember talking about was getting the over-seas factory to match design specs. Cheaper manufacturing, but at what cost?

why would an lbs rebuild bb30 bearings. they're 6 bucks.

Ha. Possibly :D

How did you come up with that user name? Classic :D :thumb:

My wife has a 2010 or 2011 (I can't remember which...) Fuji ACR 2.0 with a BB30 and hasn't had any trouble with it.

I own a 2012 Cannondale Flash Alloy 2 with a BB30 and I haven't had any trouble with mine.

So far, so good. BB30 has worked just fine for us.