Gorden Gekko

I am not familiar with this behavior ?? Ride sounds doomed from the get go

DScott

Rule number something-something-or-other: "Protect your front wheel."

Once you chew on that notion for a while, and digest the different implications, group riding can sometimes make alot more sense.

Be responsible for your sphere of influence, let go of the rest.

Cheers!

Yaniel

Does not compute

If you need to stop abruptly, letting go of the handlebar is probably a really bad idea. But yelling out a warning, just incase the guy behind you is not paying attention, can't hurt, and may give him just enough time to grab a handful of brake and at least slow down so the impact isn't as bad. It'll also warn guys further back from him.

pdedes

allow me to reiterate

sounds like the squirrels in the op's ride aren't worth spending saddle time with.

david58

Just a widely varied group - the same route was being followed by the "fast" and the "slow" riders for the first 15 miles or so, and folks were bunching up due to the varying skill levels and the rotten conditions. The wide variation in ability/experience (and this coming from a relative n00b), and then the poor visibility, helped tangle things up.

I really don't know what my future is with this group - I like the folks, but I am now nervous about riding with the large group unless I am off the back a long way. I really have enjoyed the three other rides I have done with these folks, but that usually sorts out to where I am in a group of four to six. In the smaller group, we ride a nice paceline and it works. I have just hung out as last on the line due to my relative inexperience, and it has worked fine. But it just got messy with the wide variety of riders in the group.

May just ride solo or stick to my trainer for a while. At least I found replacement shoes for $113 instead of having to pay full retail. Will assess the damage to my rear derailleur later in the week at the bike shop.

Might feel different after this here pint of IPA and a good night's sleep, but I might refrain from this kind of riding and stick with folks I know - the same thing could happen with one of my coworkers/riding friends, and the conversation would sound like "Sorry, man" "Gee, that stinks" and "Man, don't worry, I was being stupid." We usually ride in small groups of two or three, and we each have a pretty good idea of how the other rides or doesn't ride.

And no more riding in fog like today's - lots of dumb in there for all of us.

Homebrew01

Maybe before the next ride, you can suggest that the groups start 5 minutes apart, in the interest of safety. Works for us.

jsutkeepspining

If i was mr. $500 shifter i would be the one apologizing. i was the dumbass in the situation not you. crashing teaches you a lesson in paying attention, and being a responsive rider.

nosignature

this. it sucks being the new guy, but you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and not at all as a result of your actions. had you been two wheels ahead, the exact same thing would have happened, simply because mr. bling was spaced out. as long as the rest of the group didn't seem malevolent towards you, i say you're in the good with them, and that you should go and ride again. nothing helps you become a better rider like being in a group.

Rippin

Sorry got to disagree with you on this, and agree with LowCel.

People in close groups react quicker to shouted commands than to hand signs. Also, several riders will hear it, as opposed to just one or two riders that may see the hand gesture. I'd rather that the person in front of me yells "stopping" than taking their hands off the handlebar to signal, then potentially swerves and causes problems.
I've also been on long rides where the person in front of me shakes their hand every now and then to prevent numbness. Every time I see that I think they are signalling a stop - which they aren't.

Hand signals are more appropriate for low-paced riding / smaller groups / longer spacing between riders.

INOX NYC

Are you from Brooklyn too?

bianchi10

+1! I agree

david58

I reacted to the shouted signal and the quick stop or slowing of the folks in front of me. I THINK they only slowed quickly, not dead stop. In retrospect, I am amazed how much further I traveled between the initial contact and my stopping - I think part of it I was just shocked, but I was 20 yards on down the road and the fella was already back on his feet by the time I got turned around.

Often, I see a hand signal and I am wondering what the heck it means. I guess I haven't found the dictionary yet. But "slowing" and "clear" and other shouted commands are inconsistent, as is "car back." I am inconsistent calling out for cars - heck, half the folks ignore the call for a car, so I dunno when to sing out sometimes.

There was LOTS of hand shaking going on as cold as it was. I think part of the issue was in the mess that this group was, I was more paranoid than the crasher was - if he had been as paranoid as I, he might have been another bike length back. I can't criticize - I am too new at this (don't let the post count begin to imply experience, it rather reflects too much time on my hands).

The beer didn't help, I still feel like crap about it. Sometimes being right doesn't feel very good - and I am only right by accident...

justkeepedaling

I'm surprised he didn't offer to pay for your damages. I've had my front wheel taken out when it wasn't my fault, but this sounds completely in his wrong.

david58

Up past my bedtime...bad movies, a laptop, a beer, dangerous combination.

Honestly, I felt like offering to pay his damages. At the moment, I felt so bad and thought I had done something wrong to cause the crash. I still don't completely understand group ride etiquette, and figgered it was somehow my fault. Not signalling, shouting, whatever (I DID hold my line).

More concerned about the guy that crashed than I am my shoes and derailleur, more concerned about relationship than stuff. I may be right, but I don't feel to hot about it just yet. Maybe after a good night's sleep.

Brian Ratliff

We were all noobs once. Don't know if this is the mid-valley bicycle club, but if it were, it was the same group I cut my teeth on. Anyway, I wasn't there, so I have no idea of who's fault it was; I can only say that 1) everyone pays their own damages in this sport, and 2) "fault" isn't a cut and dried concept like it is when you are driving. The tradition of cycling is the pace line, and in a pace line, you have to be responsible for keeping the person behind you safe. That means never overreacting to movement up ahead, slowing only as much as you need too, not making large, sudden, lateral moves. In short, even in an emergency situation, you have to be as predicatable as possible, for the sake of the group. Basically, it is a world where everyone is expected to tailgate everyone else and it is the responsibility of the group as a whole to keep everyone from crashing into one another, all the while with an expectation that every once in a while, sht happens and people crash.

You should feel bad (but don't beat yourself up too much). Not because it was your fault, but because, in a group ride, everyone is responsible for the safety of everyone else. That is just the way it has to be if you are going to ride bikes in close proximity to each other. Replay the incident in your head and note what you could have done differently that could have resulted in a better outcome. There is always something. Store all that information so that the next time this happens, and it will happen again (this is just something that happens when you get a bunch of people on two wheels and ask them to ride inches from each other), you know a bit better what to do. Whatever you do, don't just leave it at "well, it wasn't my fault and so the dude should just suck it". Go back to the group, seek out the dude who crashed into you and apologize again, and ride. Sht happens. Everybody knows that, and chances are that the next time you see the dude who ran into you, his temper would have cooled and he'll accept your apology.

Another thing of note: you stated you were trying to keep a bike length distance between you and the person in front of you. This indicates to me that it was likely you overreacted to what was going on in front of you, due to your inexperience. In normal riding, if you feel you need a full bike length buffer to enable you to respond to routine manuvers by the person you are following, it is likely you really slammed on the brakes in response to what was going on ahead of you. Now, that is just intuition on my part; don't read an insult into this. My point simply is that there is no intrinsic reason why someone hitting their brakes in front of you should cause a chain reaction of heavy braking. You have options. Most experienced riders, even while they are ridding inches for the person in front, they are off to one side by a couple inches. This is so they can move laterally in response to a sudden braking and brake more moderately or not at all. Ask the opinion of one of the more experienced riders who saw what happened what you did right or wrong. Then really listen to those more experienced people and take what they say to heart. Group riding and pace lining and the whole shebang is all about group cooperation, and making sure everyone knows what is expected of them is key to keeping the group safe.

botto 

if you're riding with a group that shouts "slowing", you're riding with the wrong group.

roadwarrior

So the guy that hit the OP was not paying attention, as in you need to be looking four or five riders up the road to see what's going on and rode into the back of the OP and he's pissed? LOL. I'm glad that it was not me that was hit as in "what in the f are you doing you dumbass?"...

I did a group ride a while back with some people I didn't know at the invitation of a friend. Hell, I needed a decoder to understand all the crap that was being signalled back and forth. And I spent years racing with 80-100 riders in a pack for 3-4-5 hours at a pop. I thanked my friend for the invitation and peeled off and rode on my own...and of course about 15 minutes later there was an accident.

Some of this stuff is mind numbing...

androidtt

+1. Guy should have been looking past you and at you. I've been in situations where I was a foot away from the guy in front and all I needed to hear was a quick "AH!" or see a change in group motion. Since I'm looking ahead and at the person, I've already pre-planned a mini "whatamigonnadoifthishappens". HE should be buying you a pair of new shoes if at all anything.

pdedes

that person is an idiot. drift to the back and stop, no yelling required.

on the path

THANK YOU

and THANK YOU

Fiery

The whole thread is about emergency stopping or slowing down. You know, the kind where there is no time to drift to the back, and where whatever makes the person stop is also a good reason for everyone behind him to stop. Do try to keep up.

catmandew52

I don't ride in "the group" even if I am riding with a group(rarely).
Just like an automobile accident, the guy who hits you from behind is at fault. That is if course, you didn't try to pull of a completely bonehead move, like doing a skid out in front of him.
But, all you have to do is watch the TDF, or any of the other tour de jour, that makes it on to tv. Look at all those crashes, and those guys are the pros.
Is the guy who crashed into OP, hard of hearing? Whas he becoming tired and looking down at his front wheel instead of looking ahead. When possible you need both verbal and visual signalling, Crap, even if you are at the back of the group, can't see what's going on ahead, can't understand what everyone is yelling., it's going to get your attention
What applies mostly is "There are two kinds of riders. Those who have gone down, and those who are going to go down."
Just my opinion.

botto 

i never realized that a local fred ride is just like a professional race.

thanks for clearing that up.

rdtompki

Same thing happened to me on a group ride. We were in a line, 3-4 feet between bikes going up a slight grade with traffic. This was not a paceline, but a leisurely group ride. For reasons unknown the lead rider stopped suddenly. Several of the trail bikes stopped. I stopped and the rider behind hit our tandems rear disc. No damage to the rear-ender, but he was an idiot for not paying attention as was the lead rider for stopping. Mind you there was no subsequent explanation as to why the lead rider stopped and no should whatsoever on which to pull of of the line (plus traffic).

catmandew52

It might be to the Fred's.