VeganRider

A friend of mine was asking me some hard questions the other day. He is a biker, not the Harley type, he owns a crotch rocket; the thing is beautiful. We were making a compairson of a high end bicycle and a standard road motorcycle.
A standard road bike will cost around the same as a high end bicycle, but can last a long time with care, can do over 120 mph, not 50 with a downhill. Tires for example are good for about 20 times longer, dont get flats very easy and cost maybe 2 times as much. He noted other parts like wheels that are way more material and very beautiful chrome cost around the same as a light bicycle wheel. There were many other compairsons that showed how inferior a bicycle was to a motor bike per dollar that I could not argue. That they and their parts were so extreemly overpriced that we looked foolish to purchase them. And that 99% of the population hates us for slowing them down while we try to stay fit with this stuff. Hmm.
He made comments like the way we cyclist look on our bikes with the gear, and that bikers look cool. That bothered me, but he does have a point, ever look in the mirror with all the gear on? ewww.
Starting to think I might add another bike to the stable, but this one might be from Japan and ride two....But Im afraid if I get a motor bike that I would never ride my bicycles... Now that scares me.

Surferbruce

i'm going the other way, back to bikes after an obsession with vintage motorscooters that lasted intil i was hit head on and came really really close to buying the farm. if you ride a motorcycle i can guarantee you at some point you're gonna crash or get hit. the old adage is there's two kinds of riders, those who've crashed and those who will.
now the same can be said of bicycles but from both perspectives there's no doubt you're more likely to walk away from a bike accident. purely my opinion but it comes from both perspectives.
if i am gonna ride a motorized two wheeled vehicle it's gonna be my 1975 vespa primavera thats in the middle of being restored. i had three others that have all been sold, or in the case above, bent into a heap of scrap.
now i live in l.a. which contributes to my point of view. if i lived in a rural place with little traffic it might be different, but around here there's just too many big cars with people on the phone to have decent odds.
think long and hard my friend.

HigherGround

You weren't talking to ClevelandGuy, were you? (See the "Cycling: What a joke!!!" thread / flame war in case you don't recognize that little troglodyte's name.) Any way, I agree that bicycling equipment seems to be overpriced compared to other sports.

HigherGround

PS - I'm still not giving up my bicycle though!

VeganRider

Thanks, yeah I looked,,, wow! No its just that my friend always says something when I mention things about MY BIKE and now I just got a new wheel set and that set things off. You paid how much?! ! Said his rear wheel was about 900 dollars. He keeps trying to convert me.

khuon

It seems that the majority of this discussion is focused on the cost. How much is your enjoyment worth? While I could still have fun on a $200 bike, if I had the money, I would not hesitate to pay $2,000 or even $20,000 for some of the enjoyment I've received riding bikes. I'm sure some people find motorcycles fun too. Just because you like one thing shouldn't necessarily preclude you from enjoying others.

ajst2duk

There is a good point here. My bike cost around 1/4 of my Ducati, but the Ducati looked way better value. I still feel much better for having cycled instead of riding everywhere, and have dropped around 20kgs. In terms of lifestyle choice, my life is better for having gone from a v-twin, to a six-pack. It is just as exciting descending a steep twisty downhill at 70km on the cycle as it was winding the Ducati up to 235km, and leaniing it hard-out around the sweepers, just a touch less dangerous.

pseudobrit

I've seen an accident too many involving motorbikes. I'd rather be slow and slightly removed from traffic than in the full-speed mix and at the mercy of scatterbrained cell-phone-using drivers of today.

Regarding looking stupid in the mirror wearing cycling clothes: once you're on the bike it's so right you'd look stupid without it. Don't check yourself out in the mirror without being on your bike.

Smoothie104

I used to road race superbikes, fun fun fun, but way too expensive to keep doing, $1000.00 a month habit easy...

If you do buy a motorbike, keep on cycling and use it to motorpace.

phantomcow2

yea bicycle parts are grosly overpriced sometimes, I see these 6000 dollar bikes, I can get a used car for less than that, even a small boat. But thats why i use ebay to go around these, and so far i must say ive had super good luck and saved a heck of a lot.

joejack951

For people in the city especially, having a bicycle as your only transportation is WAY cheaper than any motorized vehicle would ever be. I know someone who pays $2500/year for friggin' insurance b/c they own a car and live in Philadelphia. And she takes the trolley to work. It would be more if they drove (and don't forget the cost to park). Insurance payments plus inspection plus repairs/regular maintenance can quickly disprove the theory that motorized vehicles are cheaper than bicycles (in the city at least).

Yes bicycle parts are expensive (for high end bikes). But not everyone owns a high end bike. If you owned a high end car you'd quickly realize just how overpriced parts are for it, and how ridiculous labor costs can be for the same vehicle. Being into Porsches (older, cheaper ones: 944s), it's not uncommon to hear of labor rates over $100/hour or $50 for a piece of plastic. A certain nut on a my 951 cost $12 each from the dealer.

HigherGround

Regarding the bicycling / motorcycling debate, I remember reading that Sean Yates of the Motorola team used to practice descending mountains on his motorcycle so it would feel natural on his bicycle. He was once clocked at around 70 mph on a descent in the Tour de France!

Also, khuon has two good points with, "How much is your enjoyment worth?... Just because you like one thing shouldn't necessarily preclude you from enjoying others." First, riding is such an intrinsic part of who I am, and it enriches my life in many different ways. I'd really be at a loss without it. Also, when I read all the squabbling between people who divide in to "us vs. them" arguments (whether it is steel vs. carbon, bicyclists vs. motorcyclists/drivers, road vs. mountain biking, etc), I am reminded of a quote from Rodney King - "Can't we all just get along?" He wasn't exactly a great philosopher, but that quote is beautiful in it's simplicity. Jeez, I feel like I should go hug a tree now, or something! (poking fun at myself)

phantomcow2

the how much is your enjoyment worth is how i llook at it. Its that much to make yourself happy i guess, but never the less theres some stuff that becuase its a luxury i will never buy due to price even though it would be cool to have (Colnago anything).

gcasillo

And herein this single sentence, you explain the value of the road bike. Fitness is not to be sold short or pissed away.

mark48310

you can't compare the two. it's two totally different "economies of scale." suzuki, yamaha, honda, kawasaki can sell you a lot of motorcycle for $4000 cuz they're selling millions of them every year. how many $4000 bicycles are getting sold? barely a fraction of the number of motorcycles. the smaller demand means the bicycle makers have to earn a much fatter profit margin in order to justify their business.

let's just say for sake of example that as a motorcycle maker, it costs me $3500 to build a motorcycle (materials, labor, insurance, shipping, the cost of my factory, etc.) i'm selling a million of them year globally. i can sell them at $4000 cuz $500 million a year is a good profit.

now let's say i'm a high end bicycle maker. top of the line stuff, $4000 a pop. how many folks are gonna' pay $4000 for a bike? not millions, i can assure you. not even close. so i need to turn a $2000 profit on every bike i sell or it's just not worth it to me. (i'm just making up numbers for sake of example.) you, the buyer, ends up with comparatively less "stuff" in buying a $4000 bike versus a $4000 motorcycle.

but in the end, what does it matter? if you love cycling and high end bikes, your $4000 is well spent. it's not about the money, it's about the VALUE and value is established by the end user. a $4000 sofa is a waste of money to me, but for some people it's not only valuable but a bargain. a $4000 bike, on the other hand, is something i cherish, i use daily and get tremendous value from.

i have a $5000 motorcycle and it's almost worthless to me, given the use it gets. my bicycle is a "bargain" to me cuz it gets used nearly every day, keeps me in shape, keeps my head clear and makes me happy.

anyway, you can't compare dollar for dollar between the two. i mean, is a ferrari "worth" 25 times as much as a dodge neon? not really. UNLESS you're into ferraris and high performance automobiles. but when it comes right down to it, the dodge neon gets you where you want to go and it'll go just as fast as you can LEGALLY drive the ferrari. on a dollar for dollar basis, a ferrari is a total waste. but for a ferrari fan, it's anything but. but again, you're comparing apples to oranges. and even more so when you compare bicycles to motorcycles.

short story: don't compare apples to oranges. if it's worth it TO YOU, it's worth it. YOU establish value when it comes to consumer products. and don't worry about not riding your bike if you get a motorcycle. again, apples to oranges. you can't compare what you get out of riding a bicycle to what you get out of a motorcycle. one doesn't supplant the other. it's a totally different experience. i have cars, motorcycles and bicycles. each has its purpose.

and hey, if you get a motorcycle and find you like it so much that you don't ride your bike anymore, so what? what's wrong with finding something you enjoy and prefer to something else? there are worse fates than that...

danch

Well, first, we all know it aint about dollars per mile, right? And I assume he's just giving you a hard time about your expensive hobby to justify his own, perhaps with a bit of a wink in there as well. For you and him, it's a matter of what you want to spend your money on that will bring you joy.

As a rider of both sorts of two wheeled fun machine, I find that they're two different ways of finding and extending my personal limits. Both give me a chance to do something absorbing and completely outside of my normal life. But as far as comparisons go, I don't think your friend is quite giving a fair one.

On the cost front, if he's comparing a chrome motorcycle wheel to your racing wheelsets, it aint apples to apples - chrome is for looks, and is a lot easier and cheaper to make than lightweight racing wheels. Ask him how much a set of forged marchesini's would be for his bike. another apples-to-apples comparision with tires would be your bicycle tires with a real motorcycle racing tire, which would be lucky to last 1,000 miles. Racers and fast track-day guys will go through a set in a weekend (maybe 6 hours of track time)

Motorcycles have and need a lot more engineering leeway than bicycles, whereas with bicycles weight is far more important. These days a sport bike has enough power (and good enough suspension, and good enough tires) that the rider is going to be far more limiting than weight. What the average motorbiker puts on his machine is more likely to be cosmetic or fashion than functional. For instance, CF bits on sportbikes do give a theoretical performance advantage, but when the thing limiting lap times is the loose nut behind the handlebars, what difference does it make? And as far as street performance goes, do you really need to make a machine whose acceleration is limited by the need to keep the front wheel _close_ to the ground any faster?

On a bicycle, it's all about the engine, which is the rider. Bicyclists can feel the weight difference alot more easily than motorcyclists, which (along with fashion!) leads us to be more willing to spend more money per mile.

I mostly ride my motorcycle on the track these days. It's safer there than on the street. When I do come off it's most likely my fault, and there's not liable to be anything to hit. In that environment, I feel safer than I do on my pedal bike on the street - both because the people around me are paying attention and because I'm wearing abrasion resistant materials. I don't think I look any better in my leathers than in my lycra shorts - there just two different types of funny-looking, one for comfort, one for safety.

Well, that's enough of a pointless ramble for now.

Patriot

I do have a little bit of a beef with components costing as much as they do. For example, I bought a set of Zero Gravity brakes. Are they worth it? Not really. Do I like them? Absolutely. Are they the coolest brakes out there? Yup.
But the fact is, the cost of materials, is at most $10 for the aluminum and titanium stock. Time to CNC machine and assemble? Well, the guy who makes them, apparently has his own little shop, and makes about 30 pairs a day.
His daily cost of production, about $1500 per day if you count maintenance and payment on equipment, and rent on the shop. He is basically selling almost all of the brakes, as he can barely keep up with demand.
He sells them for anywhere from $335-$375 per pair x 30= `$10500/day minus $1500 for production. So, he is raking in about $9,000/day. Apparently, he even admitted he is making a killing, and wants to retire in a few years. Good for him.

Not a bad salary. The question is, do they really need to charge that much for these products. No way. If a larger company wanted to, they could make these by the thousands, and make them a standard brakes for everyday bikes. For that matter, a 15lb bike doesn't cost a whole lot more to make on a mass scale than a 35lb Wally World MTB. The fact is, the 15lb bike is a much more desirable item. So, the few who take the sport seriously, will be willing to spend tons money to get the lighter, supposed high performance bike which has virtually no reason to cost as much as it does. It only costs that much, because they generally are made in smaller shops in fewer quantity, so as mentioned earlier, those producers have a much bigger mark up in order to survive.

15lb bikes with a full Record group could easily cost $500 or even less, if they were made by the thousands and sold at every Sears and Wally World across the country. That's generally what happens to alot of high end components. As time goes on, they are given less prestigeous labels, and sold for much less when a new design comes out that is supposedly the latest and greatest. But, as bike lovers, we are collectively willing to pay to satisfy our vanity and decadence.

halfspeed

My bikes make me stronger, my car makes me weaker. Where does the motorcycle fit in?

I think I know.

LordOpie

Take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course! It also counts as taking the riding test at the DMV in most states.

Every motorcyclist goes down evetually. If you aren't prepared physically -- helmet, etc -- and mentally for that fact, don't get on a motor.

Riding a motor has made me a better roadie and mtb'er. And riding the other have made me better on motor.

beaterbike

What LordOpie said! I own both and use both extensively.

webist

I heard a similar conversation between a Goldwing rider and a Gulfstream pilot. Different strokes.

Applehead57

No comparison. Completely different capabilities. Neither replaces the other.
Riding motorcycles seems to produce big bellies.
I'm 47 and ride to ensure I live forever. It's a health issue.

PanPanX

i think its good to have a motorcycle anyways. i hate cars and i wish i could ride everywhere i go. but because i live here in LA, with crappy traffic and everything is so spaced out, biking to some places just isnt pratical. but if you have a motorcycle, then you have the convience of a bike, but just at much higher speeds. the cost of gas will go down, chics love it and you'll still be a biker.

vrkelley

Hmmm...it might be time to think out of the box. We're well into the 21st century now. If you look like a geek - fix it.

Many cycling clothes come in "regular colors/fit". Some shorts and pants even have hidden chamios - some motocycle clothes might also work. If visiblity is a problem, light the bike. Instead of the buck-rogers helmet maybe a motorcycle helmet would work better.

khuon

I would counter that argument by saying, "We're well into the 21st century now. If you look like a geek - it's okay."