I will, they could always use a good laugh.

Thats the same response ill give next time an LBS suggests a Spesh to me for purchase.

Would you really use misinformation on a forum to form an opinion?

May be not patent infringement, but there may be a case for trade secret violation. The use of Specialized call report is quite damning.

I think there are a lot people coming here already with a very negative opinion of Specialized, and this is a place for them to vent. But it does look like it has a pattern of intimidation for its dealers and competitors; but then again, that could be said for over 90 percent of large and successful companies, I suspect.

I'm neutral to start with, and have some Specialized shoes and gloves over the years and generally appreciate them. I don't think people should form an opinion about Specialized based on the available info from this case just yet.

To my mind, one of the fundamental parts of this case is that Specialized may well be able to state that they already own the Volagi design as it was originated and perhaps executed while the designers were Specialized employees. Would they build and sell it? I don't see that happening.

I guarantee that they could care less about the opinions in this thread.

As long as they get the most bilboard space on the tour de france, they don't need to give a crap what we think.

Correct.

Specialized treats its dealers in an astonishingly dooshy manner, so their tactic trying to quash a small startup is fairly predictable.

Correcter.

Correctest.

Incorrect.

This one has been dismissed in a California court. Judging only from the loser's press statement, the court lacked venue jurisdiction for the full claim and the plaintiffs Bell Sports are likely dropping the action. In my opinion.

Specialized: big(ish), stablished company with sizable capital and very nice bikes; Volagi: startup company with limited capital and innovative bike design<---(to my not bike expert opinion)

Seems like a big fish eat little fish scenario to me in an attempt to protect profits, and market share. I haven't read the whole lawsuit and details so it's just an overall opinion on my part, but I'm on Volagi's side for now. Let's see what details unfold later on.

I love craft beer by the way. Long time ago these small breweries were almost gone because of the predatory marketing, lobbying, and business decisions of the big breweries. Think Miller, AB and such.

I am willing to wait to see how this shakes out. It does look like Specialized might have a good case, even though their particular MO is something I dislike with a passion. The company has a reputation of being high-handed (and that's putting it mildly) with its dealers, and of course, who can forget their sleazy effort to steal Cannondale designers and destroy the company in that brouhaha a few years ago.

Specialized can lose the case and still be considered dooshy. Trouble is, they could win and the result will be the same. Guaranteed, they considered the PR aspect of it all before going after Volagi...

Specialized already knows what a lot of enthusiasts think about them. Specialized has also been speaking to the press. Essentially, their position is "No comment."

And here's my opinion and a prediction. The first suit was based solely on the non-compete clause and that was tossed by the court. Only after digging for dirt did Specialized realize they might still have a case. Choi and Forsman would have gotten away clean if Choi had never taken home the sales call reports or used his Specialized email account for Volagi business. They also made some pretty ill-advised comments to the press, that the jury might not look kindly on.

California is very permissive about salaried employees working on their own projects and businesses while otherwise employed, and Specialized will need to prove damages to demonstrate that validity of the non-compete agreement. There is nothing sufficiently common between the Liscio and Specialized products to suggest that product trade secrets were stolen. Lots of bikes have extended head tubes. Because there is no evidence of the longbow stay design ever having been developed by Specialized or developed by Forsman and Choi on Specialized premises, any claim based on the design will be denied. That means no royalties from Volagi sales. The claim that Choi induced Forsman to violate company rules is specious since both men are autonomous humans and Specialized has no claim over the will of its employees.

The case will fall back to theft or conversion of company property pertaining mainly to sales, marketing, and business planning, and any estimate of damages will difficult to prove. Specialized is shooting for the sun. They will fall somewhat short of the moon, but they will have chastened Choi and Forsman and shown to the world what badass customers they are. Volagi will emerge, but bloodied.

Any admonishments to Specialized for the bad PR they are creating are misplaced. Specialized has been doing this sort of thing to competitors and dealers for decades, and it still enjoys the highest customer loyalty in the business. Just try to get the owner of a Trek 1.2 to rave about his ride the way Allez owners do.

And while I still have the floor, someone should tell Volagi that the advertising and publicity photos of the Liscio they've plastered all over the place look stupid, downright Fred-ly. The saddle should be level and raised a couple centimeters above the handlebar, and the top of the handlebar should level, not be pointing at the sun. Staging tips from CF's "Hot or Not" thread are free for the taking.

Few shops that i've been to that don't carry Specialized said the only reason is because they treat shops like crap. When they told me that i wasn't sure if that was just an excuse to not carry them but seems the consensus here is they really do treat their dealers unfairly.

I think this is less likely to hurt Specialized in PR than it is in their ability to hire and retain top notch design and engineering talent.

Hey, if Specialized loses the lawsuit, do they have to pay Volagi cost of litigation? Or is that something Volagi can then go after Specialized for?

I got a rando magazine...and volagi has a pretty big add...so im thinking they want to appeal to rando, touring, endurance crowd, not so much the roadie crowd.,

You don't have to be a roadie to know a good setup. The bikes in the photos look like they're ridden by overweight lawyers who started riding last week.

Yes, if Specialized lose this lawsuit, Volagi can go after them in a countersuit to recover litigation cost and damages.

Shouldn't have any impact. Every designer and engineer who has worked for a competent company has had to sign an employment agreement assigning their stuff (even off the clock) to their employer. Employers don't like funding and educating their employees only to have it used against them.

This suit, in large part, is for the purpose of making sure other Specialized employees don't decide to rip off the company, too.