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What if budding musicians asked the same questions as new cyclists?

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What if budding musicians asked the same questions as new cyclists?

Old 01-13-12, 10:44 AM
  #101  
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I thought this thread might have some potential.
Read the first page and had my doubts.
Skipped to page 4 and saw pictures of guitars and heard about how talented Lady Gaga is.

I used to like this place.
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Old 01-13-12, 10:46 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by thump55 View Post
I thought this thread might have some potential.
Read the first page and had my doubts.
Skipped to page 4 and saw pictures of guitars and heard about how talented Lady Gaga is.

I used to like this place.
In the middle were a couple of accordion pics so you kind of missed the point of the thread.
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Old 01-13-12, 10:50 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by thump55 View Post
Skipped to page 4 and saw pictures of guitars and heard about how talented Lady Gaga is.
I did the same. It was disappointing.

I was hoping to see a Grumpy youtube video.
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Old 01-13-12, 11:01 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by sbxx1985 View Post
I did the same. It was disappointing.

I was hoping to see a Grumpy youtube video.
I half heartedly searched, but could not find them. I'll try harder
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Old 01-13-12, 11:21 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
And still this is my own OPINION but even after leaving classical music and seeking salvation in the guitar greats, i (unwillingly) found that as great as a lot of these guitarists are, the history snd longevity of classical music has allowed for greater prodigies to emerge like heifetz or composers like shostakovich who are pure genius. I love the guitar greats but i still reserve timeless genius for some of those classical musicians - the same ones i turned my back on because of the current culture of classica music training.
That was your first qualifying disclaimer in the thread. Til then you had stated everything as fact.

If I'm at all "angry" (I'm not), it is because of the suggestion that any particular style of music, or the technique needed to perform it, is superior to any other type of music. I'll tell you this - it's ALL music. It's ALL good and it's ALL bad. It's a matter of opinion and preference as to what makes it good or bad for the listener. I happen not to be a fan of country and western music. That said, I have a Chet Atkins record that kills me every time I listen to it. What he does technically and musically amazes me.

I choose not to use this forum to promote myself. Suffice it to say I've had a 30+ year career as a performing musician. I worked steadily, and regularly played with the best musicians in the world. I did very well and established somewhat of a reputation for myself. I studied classical music and technique, but chose to play music that meant more to me. And I wanted to WORK.

What I've learned is that there is so much more to learn. Most people have almost no understanding of music, and a lot of those people would call themselves musicians. And it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is that there is music for people to listen to and enjoy and be moved by. No one particular of genre of music is better than another. It's all music.

/end of rant
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Old 01-13-12, 11:30 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by on the path View Post
That was your first qualifying disclaimer in the thread. Til then you had stated everything as fact.

If I'm at all "angry" (I'm not), it is because of the suggestion that any particular style of music, or the technique needed to perform it, is superior to any other type of music. I'll tell you this - it's ALL music. It's ALL good and it's ALL bad. It's a matter of opinion and preference as to what makes it good or bad for the listener. I happen not to be a fan of country and western music. That said, I have a Chet Atkins record that kills me every time I listen to it. What he does technically and musically amazes me.

I choose not to use this forum to promote myself. Suffice it to say I've had a 30+ year career as a performing musician. I worked steadily, and regularly played with the best musicians in the world. I did very well and established somewhat of a reputation for myself. I studied classical music and technique, but chose to play music that meant more to me. And I wanted to WORK.

What I've learned is that there is so much more to learn. Most people have almost no understanding of music, and a lot of those people would call themselves musicians. And it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is that there is music for people to listen to and enjoy and be moved by. No one particular of genre of music is better than another. It's all music.

/end of rant
Everybody has taste. 'Bad taste' is still taste.

As evidence look how many people buy Specialized.
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Old 01-13-12, 11:30 AM
  #107  
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Wow! I just caught this thread. I LOVE it.
Being a classical bassist (double-bass, not electric etc) I started at 7 yo with private lessons (not the school orchestra), and competed nationally for years. I have a desk job now so the bass gets less love than it used to... but when I go to the local symphony I can tell who was admitted out of pity both visually and acoustically. I am sure anyone who races sees me on my bike and things WTF! where is his [no idea or I might try and fix the issue], but I don't lose any weight playing bass and though it is an amazing stress relief and emotional release... I would be fat as a pig w/o cycling... not that I am NOT fat, but I would be worse off
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Old 01-13-12, 12:04 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Accordion View Post
In the middle were a couple of accordion pics so you kind of missed the point of the thread.
Much like a follow-up vasectomy check- that's worth going back for.
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Old 01-13-12, 12:09 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by on the path View Post
That was your first qualifying disclaimer in the thread. Til then you had stated everything as fact.

If I'm at all "angry" (I'm not), it is because of the suggestion that any particular style of music, or the technique needed to perform it, is superior to any other type of music. I'll tell you this - it's ALL music. It's ALL good and it's ALL bad. It's a matter of opinion and preference as to what makes it good or bad for the listener. I happen not to be a fan of country and western music. That said, I have a Chet Atkins record that kills me every time I listen to it. What he does technically and musically amazes me.

I choose not to use this forum to promote myself. Suffice it to say I've had a 30+ year career as a performing musician. I worked steadily, and regularly played with the best musicians in the world. I did very well and established somewhat of a reputation for myself. I studied classical music and technique, but chose to play music that meant more to me. And I wanted to WORK.

What I've learned is that there is so much more to learn. Most people have almost no understanding of music, and a lot of those people would call themselves musicians. And it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is that there is music for people to listen to and enjoy and be moved by. No one particular of genre of music is better than another. It's all music.

/end of rant
Look , no need to rant. You just need to understand - although I appreciate all music as music, this is not true for classically trained musicians for the most part doing a traditional education. There are very rigid standards for how to play a violin, and firm limitations on what is allowed in the range of expression. You do not take Mozart and just do your own personalized rock it out variation at Juilliard.

It took me over 2 years to detrain my violin-mind to accept distortion on a guitar as a legitimate sound and form of expression, as it is so anathema to 'crunch' for a classical violinist that you spend years eliminating the crunches from your bow arm.

I'm not approving of this view of music in the slightest, but I do see how it can produce (very) few prodigies who thrive in such a system and rise to the highest levels. I actually see the value of it having walked it - I would never have become the musician I was on violin without that single-minded devotion from age 4. If anything, I think the vast majority of guitar players seeking to improve underestimate the dedication to the craft and dilute their efforts by trying to play too much stuff of varying genres.

The prodigy Midori is not alone when she said that any music other than top classical music was banned in her household, and especially from performing. More modern violinists have expanded their views (tahnkfully), but the typical view in the classical conservatories is still very rigid .

ANd I don't know where you come up with me trying to self-promote. I clearly stsated that I quit violin years ago, was never good enough to have a recording contract, and even on my new instrument guitar, am not even good enough to reach a national final in the Guitar Center Competition. What's my agenda?
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Old 01-13-12, 01:05 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
I don't know where you come up with me trying to self-promote.
I made no suggestion that you were promoting yourself. I only stated my own intentions. I think it would be ridiculous for a musician to promote his/her self on a bike forum, but we both probably know people that would do so and think nothing of it.

Your description of typical classical education is not unknown to me, but I find it to really limiting, and just plain sad. I think we might agree that it stiffles creativity and innovation. Those are the elements that keep music moving in a forward direction, rather than clinging on to centuries old traditions. I like hearing new musical ideas. Unfortunately in the last 25 years or so I have heard little that is indeed new, but I have heard a few things that I like.

Having fun playing music may come back to me at some point, but these days I get more enjoyment from riding my bike. Go ride yours!!
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Old 01-13-12, 02:50 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by sbxx1985 View Post

I was hoping to see a Grumpy youtube video.
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Old 01-13-12, 02:55 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by thump55 View Post
I thought this thread might have some potential.
Read the first page and had my doubts.
Skipped to page 4 and saw pictures of guitars and heard about how talented Lady Gaga is.

I used to like this place.
Clearly, you missed post #63.
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Old 01-13-12, 03:29 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
Clearly, you missed post #63.
I'm not gonna lie. You disappointed me.

Have a great weekend you pot smokin' guitar playin' hippies
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Old 01-13-12, 03:32 PM
  #114  
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Well, I got a good laugh.
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Old 01-13-12, 07:35 PM
  #115  
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One thing about my guitars that I own and repair I never mind if a guitarist ask to play them........as long as they are guitarist. Here is my handmade Barker Jazz guitar I learn my trade from him
.
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Old 01-13-12, 07:46 PM
  #116  
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I don't know if they ask the same questions, but just as in cycling, I lust after things I can't afford.....

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Old 01-13-12, 07:48 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
One thing about my guitars that I own and repair I never mind if a guitarist ask to play them........as long as they are guitarist. Here is my handmade Barker Jazz guitar I learn my trade from hi
forgot a picture of the back
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Old 01-13-12, 07:57 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by kstephens View Post
I don't know if they ask the same questions, but just as in cycling, I lust after things I can't afford.....

purdy
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Old 01-13-12, 08:05 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by RUOkie View Post
purdy
I wonder if he can play it whilst cycling.
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Old 01-13-12, 08:55 PM
  #120  
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so now we get to show off our guitars ? sweet !
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Old 01-13-12, 10:25 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Runner 1 View Post
This is why I like piano. Technique isn't that complicated.
Until you get to the likes of the Liszt b minor sonata, Chopin Ballades or some of Beethoven's Sonatas, just to name a few. Or try to Bach's a minor fugue in Bk. I of the WTC. But that's what's so wonderful about piano (or keyboards) - there are so many styles and so much to play that everyone can choose their music and level and style and love it, just like in cycling we can each pick our own speed, distance and way to ride.
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Old 01-13-12, 10:54 PM
  #122  
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Maybe the equipment isn't everything, but a Hammond Organ with a Leslie 147 sure sounds a heck of a lot better than a Leslie 710.
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Old 01-14-12, 12:36 AM
  #123  
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Genius is a funny thing. It can be seen in so many places including on a Vermont dairy farm with a 90 year old Great Uncle and a ninth grade education telling me the common and scientific name of the many trees he had planted over the years and a story of each.
I found it in my mother, a classical pianist that could not for the life of her play jazz. She was a verifiable genius with an IQ well over 180 and yet spent her time teaching piano in a small Connecticut town and raising a family.
Speaking of jazz, years ago Miles Davis walked into a studio with five tunes he had been working on. He played each once and his band (including Cannonball Adderley on sax, John Coltrane on sax and Wynn Kelly on piano) then played and recorded the songs in one take and without practice. An example of pure improvisational greatness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPfFhfSuUZ4
It can be seen in Leo Kottke, a college student at the time who had a tape of this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ91DX8wfqg sent to John Fahey, another folk great who played the tape over and over and over again exclaiming " how the ph..ck did he do that".
It can be seen in the Griot singer named Habibe Koite from Mali Africa in his wonderful recording here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBwwbOa9-Dg. Koite spent 4 years studying guitar at the Sorbonne in Paris to return to Mali and transform Malian music.
It can be seen in the automobile mechanic who truly loves his job taking the pride and developing the diagnostic skills of a physician.
It is seen in Richard Thompson, arguably on of the best rock guitarist alive writing and playing for 50 years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsZM4b-YUdw.
It is seen in so many refreshing places outside the cloistered restrictions of Classical music, ( which I also love).
One thing about it, wherever it is seen it inspires and refreshes.

Last edited by surgeonstone; 01-14-12 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 01-14-12, 12:36 AM
  #124  
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The cycling musicians come out of the woodwork. I'm lovin' it!
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Old 01-14-12, 11:49 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by tcarl View Post
Until you get to the likes of the Liszt b minor sonata, Chopin Ballades or some of Beethoven's Sonatas, just to name a few. Or try to Bach's a minor fugue in Bk. I of the WTC. But that's what's so wonderful about piano (or keyboards) - there are so many styles and so much to play that everyone can choose their music and level and style and love it, just like in cycling we can each pick our own speed, distance and way to ride.
Funny you mention that. I've actually been playing Liszt's Transcendental Etude No. 10 for a while now.

My post wasn't saying that there isn't technique -- it's that the technique is not nearly as complicated as playing violin or guitar. Good piano is more about just being able to hit the correct keys with the correct pressure at the correct time. Nothing else influences the sound. (Okay, well the pedals do).

EDIT: Okay, I see you were talking more about the interpretation of the music than "physical" technique. Yes, and that's what distinguishes world-class from regular pianists.

Last edited by Runner 1; 01-14-12 at 11:56 AM.
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