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A not-so-happy Cervelo S5 owner

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

A not-so-happy Cervelo S5 owner

Old 02-19-12, 04:20 PM
  #101  
rangerdavid
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
true. FWIW the 6.7 and 6.9 are a different animal.
meaning good animal, or bad animal. I'm assuming you mean that in a good way?
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Old 02-19-12, 04:26 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Lexi01 View Post
Ahm...I take it from your response you haven't actually watched the accompanying video?

He bought the bike online and "had it delivered". Then he had to go to three local shops to gather opinions on the quality of the bike and write to Cervelo himself...

I bought from an LBS...all I had to do was drop it off and let them deal with the manufacturer...

So as I said... THIS IS A GOOD AD FOR BUYING FROM AN LBS.

Nuff said.
Yeah, sorry, I missed that while watching the video. My bad.

Poor guy seems to be really caught behind the 8-ball. I think the real question is whether or not this is a genuine frame.

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Not necessarily. LBSs often don't want to be bothered with warranty service.

I had an LBS (biggest in Tennessee) offer to warrant a badly corroded 15-day old Specialized headset . . . if I would pay him $60 labor to replace it. I had removed it from the bike -- that's how I found the problem -- and he demanded to be paid to replace the part. ($60 for about ten minutes work!) Otherwise, no warranty. Gak!

Unlike vehicle manufacturers -- who are paid for doing warranty work by the manufacturers -- LBSs are paid for warranty work by the bike owners. This not only guts the value of the warranty, but it makes things awkward when the warranty replacement offers no promise of payment for the shop.

The guy in the video clearly wasn't about to pay an LBS to dismantle and reassemble the bike in order to warranty the frame. It was already stripped. In that case, there's nothing in it (but wasted time and phone calls) for an LBS to warrant the frameset. They've got better things to do with their time and money. They are in it to make a living. If a warranty replacement doesn't result in $$$ from the customer for the labor involved, a lot of LBSs just aren't interested. Why would they go to any trouble when there's no revenue in it for them?
FB, stories like yours are why I will never, ever buy a bike at an LBS again. When I have to pay more in labor to replace a part under warranty then I really have no warranty.

It seems like the value added by an LBS shrinks more and more every year. There's only two things I use an LBS for anymore:

1) Emergency part/supply purchases.
2) Chase and face.

Everything else I've learned to do myself, including wheelbuilding; if for no other reason every time I inquire about service I'm told "X days" or "sometime next week". I've been told that and then driven to the same LBS 10 minutes later to see several service employees behind service counter doing absolutely nothing. That was with the one bike I have purchased at an LBS.

I know this thread wasn't about LBS experiences but it's clear to me that the bicycle industry is really hurting and having serious trouble adapting to modern sales and marketing. Lots of brick and mortar stores are going away for various reasons.
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Old 02-19-12, 04:29 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Would you really consider K-Mart an LBS in Australia**********? I can't believe that one. Let's get real here.

I'm talking about a multi-location shop that got that way, originally, by offering mom-and-pop level customer service and grew from there. Of course, they didn't grow really big until they realized that the money was in kids' bikes and family hybrid / comfort bikes. Originally, they were the bike racer's / bike enthusiast's shop. Now, they definitely sell more mountain bikes than road bikes and more comfort bikes than anything else. But they are considered to be quite reputable among bike shops. Like all LBSs, they've got to make a living.

And the warranty model for bicycle manufacturers forces them to extract money from the customer for warranty service. They're not operating a charity.
NO - I wouldn't consider K-Mart a LBS in Australia...I was just trying to gauge the size of the business. For example I think the biggest LBS-type business we have in Australia is Bicycle Superstore...they're generally regarded as having the worst service in the industry - hiring kids to sell bikes and offering "bike fittings" by guys who can barely ride a bike.

My LBS didn't charge me to re-build the bike either - but I realise this may be the exception more than the rule.

I think my point about size can be distilled to: the bigger the shop the poorer the service. Would that be too much of a generalisation?
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Old 02-19-12, 04:45 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by WarLordZ View Post
I read through the video comments posted on youtube. [SEE BELOW]

Apparently the dealer returned the guys money, after this video was published, but then resold it. Something sounds a miss with this dealer why would he resell it even if discounted?

This makes sense.

My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.

As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.

I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.

This frame screams fake.
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Old 02-19-12, 05:06 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
Unless your bottom bracket assplodes.
Incorrect. If you are the original owner they will warranty it.
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Old 02-19-12, 05:08 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
maybe. My 6 series Madone is damn nice, no joke. And the finish is nice.
Yeah but Treks break too much.
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Old 02-19-12, 05:08 PM
  #107  
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Wow, the workmanship on that frame is really awful. He sounded like a nitpicking whiner initially, but in seeing the pictures, the guy is absolutely right to be pissed. That's a megabuck frame and it looks really awful. Are Cervelos really this terrible?
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Old 02-19-12, 05:08 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
This makes sense.

My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.

As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.

I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.

This frame screams fake.
Great points, certainly a strange set of circumstances for the customer to deal with. I'm glad he got his money back at least.
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Old 02-19-12, 05:20 PM
  #109  
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Wow. I thought this was going to be someone just ranting when the video started but that's definitely legit. I would snap if I received a frame that looked like that. Good to hear he got some result out of that mess.

Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Yeah but Treks break too much.
Really? I have several with many many miles on them as do some friends. Not one has ever had an issue and not one of them ever came looking like that s5 did.
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Old 02-19-12, 07:20 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
This makes sense.

My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.

As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.

I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.

This frame screams fake.
again... this frame does scream fake. Seriously.... bikes direct, my fuji, scattante's at performance, my fiancee's mongoose bosberg.... all of them look much more refined than this thing. Even more of the chinese knock-offs look closer to the originals. Given the S5 is a new frame, I would say this is something like a first generation knock off.... and that they eventually improve on their imperfections.

I say we try to out the bike store that sold it to him.....
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Old 02-19-12, 07:21 PM
  #111  
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I admittedly don't know too much about carbon frames, having never owned or ridden one. However, I do know a little bit about customer service and just going on the info as presented I think I'd side with this guy.

Yes, the video testimonial is a bit clumsy but to me that makes it more obvious he's a regular guy who's genuinely unhappy and a bit frustrated. If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.

A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled.

Unless the guy is making some outrageously false claims of defect the first answer from the company (or the dealer or both, I realize there's questions there) in a situation like this should always be "Yes sir, we'll send a new frame/refund right away!"
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Old 02-19-12, 07:44 PM
  #112  
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My brain hurts and I only watched about a min. that guys is a worse speaker then Joe Biden
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Old 02-19-12, 08:14 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
I admittedly don't know too much about carbon frames, having never owned or ridden one. However, I do know a little bit about customer service and just going on the info as presented I think I'd side with this guy.

Yes, the video testimonial is a bit clumsy but to me that makes it more obvious he's a regular guy who's genuinely unhappy and a bit frustrated. If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.

A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled.

Unless the guy is making some outrageously false claims of defect the first answer from the company (or the dealer or both, I realize there's questions there) in a situation like this should always be "Yes sir, we'll send a new frame/refund right away!"
not if it isn't a legitimate frame. it's tough for a company to protect it's brand, assume risk and liability, when it hasn't received the appropriate premium as this particular frame seems clearly fraudulent.
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Old 02-19-12, 08:21 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much.
What does that mean? You could insert any product where the "bike" is and have the same meaning.

Maybe he NEEDS it to get a PB...maybe he NEEDS it to take the next step in his cycling...maybe he NEEDS it to keep up with the Jones'...maybe he NEEDS it to complete a set of Cervelos he's been dreaming about...

I guess you mean that no-one needs to spend $3k on a frame when you can get the same utility from a $15 second hand 1970s frame on eBay. Then...I guess you're right.
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Old 02-19-12, 08:35 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
not if it isn't a legitimate frame. it's tough for a company to protect it's brand, assume risk and liability, when it hasn't received the appropriate premium as this particular frame seems clearly fraudulent.
Agreed, but if they suspect (or know) that it's not a legitimate frame then they should have responded with that reason to the customer instead of telling him that the flaws are only cosmetic and nothing to worry about. And if, as stated, the OP purchased the frame through a licensed Cervelo dealer then it would seem that Cervelo would have the motivation and means to investigate their dealer and stop future sales of counterfeit frames.
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Old 02-19-12, 08:41 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Lexi01 View Post
What does that mean? You could insert any product where the "bike" is and have the same meaning.

Maybe he NEEDS it to get a PB...maybe he NEEDS it to take the next step in his cycling...maybe he NEEDS it to keep up with the Jones'...maybe he NEEDS it to complete a set of Cervelos he's been dreaming about...

I guess you mean that no-one needs to spend $3k on a frame when you can get the same utility from a $15 second hand 1970s frame on eBay. Then...I guess you're right.
??? Cherry-pick much?

Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
...If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.

A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled. ..."
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Old 02-19-12, 08:42 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by R T View Post


Really? I have several with many many miles on them as do some friends. Not one has ever had an issue and not one of them ever came looking like that s5 did.
Really.

But that doesn't matter so much if Trek stands behind them, and they do. That's fine.
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Old 02-19-12, 08:48 PM
  #118  
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I dunno man...I had to submit a couple Cervelo warranty claims for the shop...I had RA's within 30 mins. There are a few S5's in the shop and none look like that.
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Old 02-19-12, 08:56 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post
meaning good animal, or bad animal. I'm assuming you mean that in a good way?
the 6.7 and 6.9 are SSL carbon (US made) and the others are oclv.
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Old 02-19-12, 08:59 PM
  #120  
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What gets me is that Cervelo either didn't think that it was a fake and didn't care at all about all the non-structural flaws or didn't care if it was a fake.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:03 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by dongringo View Post
What gets me is that Cervelo either didn't think that it was a fake and didn't care at all about all the non-structural flaws or didn't care if it was a fake.
Based on the communication skill demonstrated in the video maybe it went something like this:

Unhappy frame buyer, "Yeah, it looks bad. Real bad."

Cervelo person on the phone, "You need to talk with the dealer that you bought it from, not us directly." (which is SOP for warranty claims).

Or maybe not. We have no way of knowing.
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Old 02-19-12, 10:50 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
not if it isn't a legitimate frame. it's tough for a company to protect it's brand, assume risk and liability, when it hasn't received the appropriate premium as this particular frame seems clearly fraudulent.
Agreed! Pinarello a heavily copied brand as well, has a warning on the front page of their website about all the fake frames out there and announcing that buyers beware.
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Old 02-19-12, 11:04 PM
  #123  
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Nobody cares about friggin bicycles anyway.
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Old 02-19-12, 11:09 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Nobody cares about friggin bicycles anyway.

An odd comment to make after 46,810 posts on a bike forum. lmao
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Old 02-19-12, 11:12 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by WarLordZ View Post
Agreed! Pinarello a heavily copied brand as well, has a warning on the front page of their website about all the fake frames out there and announcing that buyers beware.

I would imagine ALL the major bike makers, have the same kind of info on their sites as well? Cant imagine folks not trying to make knockoffs of:Cannondale/Colnago/Felt etc?

I would think w/ the price of the Cannondale Supersix's alone, would probably bring out alot of knockoffs?
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