illdthedj

First off, sorry if my questions are covered elsewhere...

anywho, i am somewhat of a newbie to road bikes.
have built a few bikes up before, mainly single speeds/ fixed gear, and some older road bikes with down tube shifting.

however now building up a 'modern' road bike, aluminum frame with carbon fork, mostly ultegra components. compact double cranks.

so my QUESTIONS
looking into shopping around for brifters (that the proper term?), probably used on ebay. havn't bought a rear cassette yet, so i guess i could do 8, 9, or 10 speed considering the shifters.

was looking into ultegra shifters, but also sram rival, and also 105s...
obviously ultegra would make sense considering the derailleurs are ultegra, but is the price difference between ultegra and 105 worth it? are there different models of ultegra and 105 that are better than others? (say, 5600 or 5700 or etc.) i would assume newer would equal better but maybe not? so how does sram rival compare? is it basically Sram's ultegra? or its 105? if you've had experience with both shimano and sram, do you prefer doubletap?

just looking for individual opinions and gathering info.
if any of these questions are asked all the time and theres threads burried within this forum, forgive me...and if any of my info is incorrect or im obviously ignorant, feel free to correct me.

basically i have a budget around 150 to 175 bucks, and it seems from watching ebay i can afford any of these options used...but obviously saving money would be nice.

anywho thanks for your time

illdthedj

i guess another thing i never thought about was compatibility between brands and models...
im not sure what model ultegra the derailleurs i have are...not at home but can look at that.

perhaps its best i just stick with ultegra, specifically whichever model my derailleurs are. although is 105 generally OK to mix with ultegra?

this is starting to sound like me asking people to do research for me haha, sorry bout that ill dig deeper. feel free to ignore my post.

ColinL

ultegra jumps ahead of 105 for a model-year or two, but then 105 catches up to the technology and really the only difference becomes weight. this was roughly true for the jump to 10 speed, internally routed shift cable, etc.

what kind of ultegra derailleurs have you got, 9 or 10 speed?


regarding sram levers, they will control your front derailleur but not rear. I wouldn't bother on your budget and with your goals. it would've been good to consider sram lever shape/size and shifting mechanism before buying your derailleurs.

tardman91

Mixing and matching the Shimano gear should be no problem, mixing the SRAM and Shimano stuff gets a little trickier. It can be done, but I'm not sure what is compatible with what. I read it a few days ago on here somewhere.
As far as equivalents go, Shimano is 2300, Sora, Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, Dura-Ace. The higher the number (5700 vs. 5600) the "better." SRAM goes Apex, Rival, Force, Red. Apex is pretty comparable to 105, depending on who you ask.

illdthedj

cool, thanks for the info. good to know about newer 105.
yes was just reading about people needing a j-tek shiftmate to make sram shifters work with shimano derailleurs...

i believe my ultegra derailleurs are 9 speed...not at home, so not sure which model they are (6?00)...i sort of jumped at buying them without thinking things thru since they went for so cheap on ebay.
im thinking i should find out what model and speed they are for sure and going from there.

just curious, if my ultegra derailleurs are 10 speed, they would more or less work fine with ultegra 9 speed brifters? just needs adjustment with the limit screws? perhaps 9 speed ultegra derailleur would have enough travel distance to accomodate 10 speed cassette?

btw thanks for any advice. appreciate it!

btw2 anyone familiar with microshift brifters?

illdthedj

sorry, yet another question:

What are the rules or general guidelines for proper hood placement? im assuming low enough to reach the levers with your fingers in the drops, but beyond that, im admittedly ignorant.

tardman91

I looked at a couple of lower end Felt bikes with them. I personally didn't like the way felt.

ColinL

Can you please get rid of that animated gif in your sig?

I'll answer you as a way of thanking you in advance. Hood placement depends on the shape of the drops and your own personal preferences. The most common today is a compact drop with a long flat area formed by the hoods and bar top. For years before that, the bars tipped down and there was a distinct ramp upwards at the hoods, like a "J". Some people still do that, of course.

You can see some bar shapes and hood placements here:
https://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/roa...-bar-geometry/

Unfortunately that site hasn't be updated with newer bars, but look at the 3T rotundo compared to ergosum as one example.

pallen

Looking from the side of the bike, you generally want a straight line from the top of the bars across the base of the hoods, mostly level. There's no law about this, its just a starting point.

Not the best pic, but something I ripped from the internets

illdthedj

haha sorry about that, i guess its annoying seeing it several times in a row ;p

thanks for that link, its actually quite helpful.

tardman91

The second and third images are probably the most popular ones. I use an FSA Omega compact bar and mine is set up like one on the far right.

illdthedj

that is helpful as well...yes i had read many places allot of it is preference, but a good starting point is what i was looking for.
makes sense to have hoods more or less level.

illdthedj

im not at home, but from mind's eye my h-bars are like the anatomic ones here:

ColinL

^^ my hoods.

be careful with compact bars if you actually ride in the drops while seated-- which you of course you should. depending on where you like to place your hands you could have problems reaching the brake lever (short fingers) or wrapping your whole hand around the bar properly (big hands).

CC explains the issue here: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/vi...ebars.665.html

kle

SRAM's "Exact Actuation" technology, or 1:1 shifting, or whatever you want to call it, means that the shifter moves by the same amount the cable is pulled. With Shimano's shifting, this isn't the case, so basically the rear derailleur and right/rear shifter have to match (there are some other match-ups that can be made here, such as Campagnolo + SRAM, since their cable pulls are very similar).

The front shifting is compatible between the two manufacturers - I use a Shimano Ultegra 6600 front derailleur with a SRAM Force front shifter, no problems.

I've successfully used a Shimano 6500 rear derailleur (nominally a 9-speed) with a Shimano 6600 right/rear shifter (10-speed), and also a Shimano 6500 front derailleur (9-speed, slightly wider cage) with a Shimano 6600 left/front shifter (10-speed, double-only), all with the proper adjustment of the limit-screws and cable tension.

illdthedj

ok thanks for all the info!
honestly i was expecting allot more flack being a somewhat ignorant ex-hipster "fixie" rider haha...

going home at lunch, i checked the rear derailleur (and brakeset) and they are in fact ultegra 6500. subsequently, a BF member has messaged me about selling his 6500 brifters and 9spd cassette for within my price range...so long as its in good working order i think i will pull the trigger...makes sense to get matching components!

so once again, thanks everyone for all the info, it has been very helpful.

ColinL

ultegra 6500 is good stuff. you'll enjoy.

kle

https://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adj...html#alternate - Sheldon Brown's website has an interesting bit of information: if the cable for a Shimano rear derailleur is run over the top of the anchor bolt (instead of the bottom, as is the usual case), it will make the shifter move slightly more with each click, enabling you to use a 10-speed shifter with a 9-speed cassette. If you run the cable in front of the anchor bolt, it will make the shifter move slightly less with each click, allowing you to use a 9-speed shifter with a 10-speed cassette (though one cog on either end of the cassette will be unusable).

I've never tried it, and apparently it isn't 100% foolproof, but it looks like it'll be a good way to squeeze a little more life out of your components...until the urge to upgrade to more gears becomes too great =)

I'll second ColinL's sentiments: Ultegra 6500 is definitely good stuff. I've been riding on it for the past three or four years, and raced on it all last year until I finally got around to upgrading to 10-speed stuff this winter (just so I'll be able to grab any wheel from the wheel truck/van in road races, and so that all of my bikes have interchangeable wheels so I can move them around without tools).

IthaDan 

Be a little careful with this. 5600 vs 5700 are different generations of the same line. In this case it's 105. The 5700 would be a NEWER 5600. As a rule it's more like this:

7XXX- Dura-Ace
6XXX- Ultegra
5XXX- 105
4XXX- Tiagra
...
...

Keeping the same thousand number can be a little tricky. There have been gradual additions of more speeds and narrower profiles.

rebel1916

In my world they are called ergos...

IthaDan 

good for you!