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But if we let kids ride their bicycles to school we won't hit our 40% obesity goal.

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But if we let kids ride their bicycles to school we won't hit our 40% obesity goal.

Old 05-08-12, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/1...-healthy-food/

Healthy eating really does cost more.

That’s what University of Washington researchers found when they compared the prices of 370 foods sold at supermarkets in the Seattle area. Calorie for calorie, junk foods not only cost less than fruits and vegetables, but junk food prices also are less likely to rise as a result of inflation. The findings, reported in the current issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association, may help explain why the highest rates of obesity are seen among people in lower-income groups.
The problem with choosing to normalize price by calorie is that it's the wrong way to look at it. Most American poor kids aren't suffering from a calorie deficit. In fact, the obesity epidemic shows that they have a calorie surplus, but that they are malnourished because of an overload of crappy nutrient-poor calories. If you normalized price by nutrient content, you'd come up with a different result.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:41 AM
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first of all, Mr Pcad, you certainly are a character on this forum, but thanks for putting up the article about the school with the "no bike riding" rule. It certainly does show up a very unhealthy attitude in N. American society, and your opening line really hit it on the head with the humour and seriousness rolled into one.

to the fellow (I presume) who has stated more than once that "making healthy food" takes "more time" and is "much more expensive" than "unhealthy" food--what can I say, that some N. Americans think this way is just another example of how sad it is that obesity has grown to the levels it has. Diet and exercise, its that simple.
Buying fresh veggies and fruit is not expensive. Making meals with veggies and fruit is not hard. Families bringing up kids not eating said foods, and eating processed stuff is where its at, forming poor eating habits and being dependent on sugary and salty foods.

It aint rocket science, and this school article just illustrates a mindset that is part of the problem, not enough physical activity, diet being the other.

good on you Pcad for putting this up. Its kinda like a similar one here a number of years back, where some residents of a Montreal area borough got kids street hockey banned, because of "the danger" and "damage to cars". Yup, thats the right thing, stop those kids getting healthy exercise.....yes, there was a big kerfuffle about it.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:42 AM
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If the parent is a bacon and cheese fatty that doesnt excersise, chances are the kids gonna be a BCF that doesnt exerciser. The grease doesnt spill far from the fryer. It was that epiphany that helped me get back on the bike and help loose 60lbs.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:46 AM
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Upon arriving at school with my daughters a parent commented to my youngest that riding 8 km to school was a really long way to ride... she replied, "It is barely a warm up".

She was 9 at the time and is a wee bit of a thing.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
Upon arriving at school with my daughters a parent commented to my youngest that riding 8 km to school was a really long way to ride... she replied, "It is barely a warm up".

She was 9 at the time and is a wee bit of a thing.
right on!
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Old 05-08-12, 07:58 AM
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Ever try and cook a genuinely healthy meal? It's pretty expensive.
Bull biscuits. The same people who use this excuse think little of ordering $30 worth of delivery pizza and soda to feed a family of four. Fresh or frozen vegetables, fish, turkey, chicken, pork or beef, with brown rice or whole grain pasta can be made in under 30 minutes (the time many people spend in front of the TV waiting for the pizza) for around $3 a plate. My wife and I lead very busy lives and make a lot of stir fry, roasted, baked or crock pot meals so even the dishes are minimal.

Oatmeal or whole grain cereals cost no more than the sugary nothing puffs too many kids eat. Replace the sweet roll or donut with a banana and a small glass of milk or juice and your kids (or you) are set for the morning and won't be getting those 10 am hunger pangs and cravings, so there's another $3-$5 saved at Starbucks or the vending machines.

Good food is a good value, it's poor health and obesity that are expensive.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
Shrug. There's a bit too much idealism and blame in your post. Ever try and cook a genuinely healthy meal? It's pretty expensive. Both parents work these days because it's hard to make ends meet.


Eating healthy is slightly more expensive but there should be absolutely nothing more important or high priority than the health of one's family.

Im sure if you took a look at the average family budget, you'd find plenty of areas to cut the small amount of extra cash needed to skip over the processed junk and serve some fresh fruit, veggies, and high quality lean protein with every meal. Hell, you could probably make up the difference by skipping the friday night pizza or chinese take-out.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
Shrug. There's a bit too much idealism and blame in your post. Ever try and cook a genuinely healthy meal? It's pretty expensive. Both parents work these days because it's hard to make ends meet.
Actually, it's not that hard. It's simply a lifestyle choice. I teach and make a pretty mid level salary and my wife earns part-time pay in a full time job (special ed para). We do, however, believe in healthy eating and cook nearly every meal using as many whole ingredients we can and fresh vegetables. And we read labels carefully for anything partially processed. Kids take a homemade lunch too. I'm convinced it's not really any more expensive to cook than it is to eat processed crap. However, it does take more time and that's were you have to prioritize what's important. We eat out only a couple times a month because that's what's expensive and also you have less control over the quality of the food.

Oh, and my kids walk or bike to school most days but we also bought a house not too far from the schools because that was also a priority.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred
its not expensive to grow your own produce....but work is involved...and boy people don't like work....
really? since when. We tried to have a garden one summer just so we could have fresh vegetables. squash, okra, tomatoes. In the end the water bill alone cost us $300 for that one month. It's not always about the work

Originally Posted by DropDeadFred
I do think poor people have no business having children...
and I'm sorry, but this is an elitist ass statement. Yes, there are some people who shouldn't bring children in this world, but I was one of those 'poor people' you talk about at one time and at that time we were pregnant with our first child. So what I'm seeing is that I shouldn't have had my kids, right?

poor people aren't always poor by choice, but that doesn't mean that people with good intentions and a straight head shouldn't have kids.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:03 AM
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Or, I could let my 7yr old ride her bike to school and get hit by one of the countless ******bags, half probably on the 41, speeding down the roads that lead to school with no curbs and pathetic sidewalks...yes, great plan!
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Old 05-08-12, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
Ever try and cook a genuinely healthy meal? It's pretty expensive.
What is so expensive about it?
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Old 05-08-12, 08:08 AM
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As a parent, I find the obesity epidemic to be scary. Both of my children are healthy and exercise regularly (my daughter is becoming a swimming standout), but as others pointed out, cheap, processed, "empty" calories abound as soon as they leave our house. Schools have vending machines. Friends share lunches and snacks. Other parents offer food when my kids are at their house. And yes, we still occasionally fall for the temptation of cheap, easy to prepare processed food. The day only offers so many hours.

On the point of the expense of "healthy" food, I think that some of you too easily dismiss that issue. Doesn't “real” food (fruits, veggies, whole grains) and animal protein (seafood, poultry) not loaded with antibiotics and injected hormones consume a lot more acreage to produce? Virtually every commercial fish species has collapsed or is on the edge of collapse. We have limited amounts of water for crop irrigation, let alone raising livestock --- and changing climate patterns are exacerbating the problem.

If everyone in the US, let alone the planet, suddenly wanted to "eat healthy" as it's being described here, could we come close to supplying that demand? At the very least, wouldn’t that increased demand cause prices to jump above the level where much of the population could access the "healthy" food?

But I digress; I suspect that the only practical answer here is for folks to be more physically active. I think the fact that obesity has leveled off among the poor but continues to increase among the wealthy speaks to activity more then diet, but what do I know
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Old 05-08-12, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ahsposo
Imagine a world with no ugly, stupid, poor people!
It's called the 41 and you're posting in it
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Old 05-08-12, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Myosmith
Bull biscuits. The same people who use this excuse think little of ordering $30 worth of delivery pizza and soda to feed a family of four. Fresh or frozen vegetables, fish, turkey, chicken, pork or beef, with brown rice or whole grain pasta can be made in under 30 minutes (the time many people spend in front of the TV waiting for the pizza) for around $3 a plate. My wife and I lead very busy lives and make a lot of stir fry, roasted, baked or crock pot meals so even the dishes are minimal.

Oatmeal or whole grain cereals cost no more than the sugary nothing puffs too many kids eat. Replace the sweet roll or donut with a banana and a small glass of milk or juice and your kids (or you) are set for the morning and won't be getting those 10 am hunger pangs and cravings, so there's another $3-$5 saved at Starbucks or the vending machines.

Good food is a good value, it's poor health and obesity that are expensive.
The cost and time stuff is pretty well documented stuff. That is highly influenced by corporate and governmental impetus to keep processed surplus foods cheap and easy, thus creating a reliance on them. The folks posting in this thread also are cyclists, which in the US tend to be above average in household income.

None of these issues are fixed by changing one aspect. They are complex societal issues. From our food production to the physical structure of communities very little has been done to put into place lifestyles to promote health and well being.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Healthy food is expensive? Compared to what?



I think the proper phrasing should be; investing in one's health through proper diet is not attractive to most people. Thus they budget much less than they should with the inevitable results.
There it is. Healthy food isn't expensive...the problem is that crap food is dirt cheap!
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Old 05-08-12, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred
its not expensive to grow your own produce....but work is involved...and boy people don't like work....
girl people too
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Old 05-08-12, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/op...pagewanted=all

THE “fact” that junk food is cheaper than real food has become a reflexive part of how we explain why so many Americans are overweight, particularly those with lower incomes. I frequently read confident statements like, “when a bag of chips is cheaper than a head of broccoli ...” or “it’s more affordable to feed a family of four at McDonald’s than to cook a healthy meal for them at home.”

<snip>
Did you even read the article? This is the paragraph directly after what you quoted:

This is just plain wrong. In fact it isn’t cheaper to eat highly processed food: a typical order for a family of four — for example, two Big Macs, a cheeseburger, six chicken McNuggets, two medium and two small fries, and two medium and two small sodas — costs, at the McDonald’s a hundred steps from where I write, about $28. (Judicious ordering of “Happy Meals” can reduce that to about $23 — and you get a few apple slices in addition to the fries!)
Good work!
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Old 05-08-12, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by goose70
On the point of the expense of "healthy" food, I think that some of you too easily dismiss that issue. Doesn't “real” food (fruits, veggies, whole grains) and animal protein (seafood, poultry) not loaded with antibiotics and injected hormones consume a lot more acreage to produce? Virtually every commercial fish species has collapsed or is on the edge of collapse. We have limited amounts of water for crop irrigation, let alone raising livestock --- and changing climate patterns are exacerbating the problem.

If everyone in the US, let alone the planet, suddenly wanted to "eat healthy" as it's being described here, could we come close to supplying that demand? At the very least, wouldn’t that increased demand cause prices to jump above the level where much of the population could access the "healthy" food?
I found Diet for a new world to be pretty interesting on this point. Sure, he has an agenda and a bias, but I think he also has a good point -> healthy food can be provided to all. Choices and politics are what mostly confound the issue.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:15 AM
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Ever try and cook a genuinely healthy meal? It's pretty expensive.
Bull biscuits. The same people who use this excuse think little of ordering $30 worth of delivery pizza and soda to feed a family of four. Fresh or frozen vegetables, fish, turkey, chicken, pork or beef, with brown rice or whole grain pasta can be made in under 30 minutes (the time many people spend in front of the TV waiting for the pizza) for around $3 a plate. My wife and I lead very busy lives and make a lot of stir fry, roasted, baked or crock pot meals so even the dishes are minimal.

Oatmeal or whole grain cereals cost no more than the sugary nothing puffs too many kids eat. Replace the sweet roll or donut with a banana and a small glass of milk or juice and your kids (or you) are set for the morning and won't be getting those 10 am hunger pangs and cravings, so there's another $3-$5 saved at Starbucks or the vending machines.

Good food is a good value, it's poor health and obesity that are expensive.

The countries pedophiles would love this plan.
Contrary to what assorted TV dramas portray, stranger abductions are actually only a very small percentage of sex crimes against juveniles, the vast majority involve people that the child knows and trusts in everyday settings. What the country's pedophiles love is having everyone believe that the biggest danger is some stranger in a black van snatching children off the street. I'm not saying don't raise your kids street smart, bad things can happen anywhere. Just keep things in perspective based on real statistics rather than sensationalized news reports and cliche TV plots.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by K&K_Dad
really? since when. We tried to have a garden one summer just so we could have fresh vegetables. squash, okra, tomatoes. In the end the water bill alone cost us $300 for that one month. It's not always about the work
rainwater is free, all you gotta do is collect it. Geesh.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:17 AM
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This was the best one yet Pcad, Kudos.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
The cost and time stuff is pretty well documented stuff. That is highly influenced by corporate and governmental impetus to keep processed surplus foods cheap and easy, thus creating a reliance on them. The folks posting in this thread also are cyclists, which in the US tend to be above average in household income.

None of these issues are fixed by changing one aspect. They are complex societal issues. From our food production to the physical structure of communities very little has been done to put into place lifestyles to promote health and well being.
The issues may be complex, but we need to start somewhere. Riding a bike certainly is a good start.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Did you even read the article? This is the paragraph directly after what you quoted:



Good work!

kind of silly to compare eating out to cooking at homes on any level. compare eating a healthy meal out to eating fast food, or eating healthy in vs preparing processed foods.

kind of silly that you're even arguing with me about it. This is a well documented aspect of the problem, whether it's real or perceived. The question is why don't people eat healthier. The answer includes cost (perceived or otherwise), and lifestyles (including how much they work and what they're paid). So what's the solution? Changes in our food systems and lifestyles, coupled with education.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by goose70
As a parent, I find the obesity epidemic to be scary. Both of my children are healthy and exercise regularly (my daughter is becoming a swimming standout), but as others pointed out, cheap, processed, "empty" calories abound as soon as they leave our house. Schools have vending machines. Friends share lunches and snacks. Other parents offer food when my kids are at their house. And yes, we still occasionally fall for the temptation of cheap, easy to prepare processed food. The day only offers so many hours.

On the point of the expense of "healthy" food, I think that some of you too easily dismiss that issue. Doesn't “real” food (fruits, veggies, whole grains) and animal protein (seafood, poultry) not loaded with antibiotics and injected hormones consume a lot more acreage to produce? Virtually every commercial fish species has collapsed or is on the edge of collapse. We have limited amounts of water for crop irrigation, let alone raising livestock --- and changing climate patterns are exacerbating the problem.

If everyone in the US, let alone the planet, suddenly wanted to "eat healthy" as it's being described here, could we come close to supplying that demand? At the very least, wouldn’t that increased demand cause prices to jump above the level where much of the population could access the "healthy" food?

But I digress; I suspect that the only practical answer here is for folks to be more physically active. I think the fact that obesity has leveled off among the poor but continues to increase among the wealthy speaks to activity more then diet, but what do I know
If you don't live in an area where you can grow/raise your own food or have access to local farmers and farmers markets, I don't know what to tell you (only because I am not arrogant enough to say "move out of that crap hole!").

Seriously, it doesn't take that much room to grow a lot of the produce you consume. Granted, zoning laws can be problematic though...both for what you can grow and for raising critters.
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Old 05-08-12, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Myosmith
Bull biscuits.
Can I get some sausage gravy over those?
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