Haven't really kept up with the thread, but there are lots of guys doing huge distances with toe clips. I think clipless is better, but if you don't want to spend the money don't worry about it.

Yea you'll lose a bit of efficiency, but unless you're paying the rent with your legs, just pedal on and enjoy yourself.

It's been proven that the differences are incredibly small, and if you just learn how to pedal you don't need any expensive pedals and shoes that people try to make you feel like you need.

Whatever a person is currently using is what they will say is the best, otherwise they will feel like they've wasted their money. *Of course* when a person goes out and spends $100 on something they will "feel" a huge difference. Clipless might make some inexperienced cyclists feel like they are so much faster, but it's all in their head unless they have very poor technique.

100 bucks for perceived change is a great deal though, especially if it'll make or break whether someone sticks with it or not. Continuing to believe it makes a difference and throwing more money at it later for more space-aged shoes would be a true waste (which does seem to happen often), but I'm all for people trying out low-end clipless systems.

Unless you use old-school cycling shoes with slotted cleats, in which case the only significant difference is that clipless are easier to engage/disengage than toe clips/straps/slotted cleats.

You don't need an expensive bike or components either.

But I like to spend my money where I spend my time. With few exceptions, you're buying more fun than performance.

Only if you use real cycling shoes with your toe clips and straps:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/slotted-cleats.jpg

Alan Bike Houston, that you?

I have to kind of disagree. Last year I got a pair of free Shimano shoes. These were really expensive new, like $280 or something like that. I'd never pay that much for shoes. They are the kind that they use heat to mold to your feet. They are the very best most incredible shoes I've ever ridden and I've gone from the old days of leather lace up shoes and clips to clip-less and so on. So what I am riding now are currently the best and they didn't cost me a dime, I won them at a race :D

Lightweight stiff carbon sole shoes are easier to pedal after 80 miles or 10 miles. Less weight you have to move around on your foot the better. Plus when the fit just right as in molded to your feet I swear you can feel parts of your pedal stroke you didn't even know were there. Just going from regular running shoes to a cheap cycle shoe with a stiff sole makes a huge difference clip-less or not.

I hope these last me a long time because as much as I love them I'd still not pay that much for a set of shoes :)

And yeah like I was saying if you want efficient clipped set up then you need shoes with cleats just like a clip-less set so you may as well go clip-less unless you just want a day tripper to ride to the mall or something.

For whatever it's worth...

I was happy with my tennis shoes and straps. Well, I WAS happy until I crashed in my driveway after a ride, and I broke my toe. Yup. somehow, my big toe got wrapped around the edge of pedal where the little "teeth" were. I blamed my soft-soled shoes, and I decided I wanted some shoes with a hard sole to ride in. I wasn't interested in using cleats; I just assumed there would be some tennis shoes with hard soles that people rode bikes with. I went to the bike shop, and they just had shoes with cleats. I let the guy talk me into some SPDs, and I haven't broken another toe since I started using them. :D


Years ago, my dad had a fun accident with old-skool straps. He went down in a crack in the road, and he basically just slid until the bike stopped. His entire side from foot to shoulder was a purple and red bruise/brush-burn for a while. That's when he stopped using the strap that went around the back of your foot and just used the front part.

I'm a roadie and a racer, I have expensive carbon-soled clipless shoes and ride Speedplay pedals. And I think that clipless pedals are seriously oversold. There are benefits to foot retention, which of course is why I use clipless pedals. But the benefit is about keeping your foot on the pedal and not having the proprioceptive cost of having to make sure your foot and the pedal stays in contact. There's very little advantage in terms of speed.

So here's the thing. There are two basic means of keeping your foot attached to the pedal. One is clipless pedals, as mentioned. The other is toe clips and straps. In the Old Days, there was no functional difference in how securely these held your feet - with cleated cycling shoes, toe clips and straps are every bit as locked-in as clipless pedals. Clipless pedals won out because they are way easier to get in and out of, and they're nicer to your feet. In the modern era, toe clips are treated as more of an intermediate step between plain pedals with no retention at all and clipless pedals are are totally secure. People tend to use them with tennis shoes or other non cycling-specific footwear that can still be slid backwards out of the clip relatively easily.

My opinion is that the benefits of the modern use of toe clips and straps are extremely marginal. They do hold your feet in place reasonably well, and you can sort of pull up on the pedals if you really want to, but they're kind of loosey-goosey, and, most of all, still pretty uncomfortable if you want them to be at all secure. Personally, I would rather ride plain pedals than clips and straps with tennis shoes most of the time.

I rode with toe clips for a long time. Then last year, as part of a bike fitting, I switched to Look Keo pedals and a specialized road shoe with fiberglass sole.
The difference was very significant.

Then this year, I switched to a road shoe (also specialized) with carbon fiber sole. I thought carbon fiber in shoe soles was just for show and boy was I wrong.
It makes a huge difference in spreading the force evenly and not flexing when climbing out of the saddle. Maybe Specialized fiberglass soled shoes are crap, I would not know since I never owned another shoe with fiberglass/plastic soles.

Clipless pedals and a great shoe is what I would recommend. If you watch ebay and the specialized web site on clearance, sometimes you can find great deals on their top line shoes.

Thanks everyone, super answers and gave me a lot of insight on what everyone thinks. Seemed to get some mixed reviews. A lot of cyclers really do love clipless. And with good reason, I can see why since I bought a pair and gave them a shot for a couple of days.

I found it great to have your foot attached to the pedals, seems like I was wasting a lot less energy not trying to keep my feet in place. Not to mention I did notice a difference on hills and sprints like most of you said.

However, aside from hills and sprints, I didn't feel a significant advantage performance wise when just riding on flat road (most of my road is relatively flat), aside from feeling more connected to the bike and not having to position my feet properly. But I absolutely understand how clipless pedals are needed when doing performance based or long rides.

So at the end of the day, since I am currently not riding super far yet, I bought a pair of toe clips and installed them. And for the type of riding I'm doing currently, I found toe clips to be just enough, they keep my feet placed and I can leave them sort of lose and still sort of get the benefit of the pull effect. Also they cost me 5 bucks vs 150 for clipless. But it was never the money that was an issue, I just felt I needed to justify the expense.

But I know the day will come when I will feel the need to but out some hard core carbon roadie shoes, with super cool cleats and pedals! Maybe once I can do 80km+.......in one go.......... :)

i have velcro shoes; are they clipless?

I don't mean to be rude, but you may be doing it wrong. Do you utilize the full pedal stroke? For me, even in flats, it's a huge difference.

Yea your probably right, I haven't got accustomed to using the full pedal stroke yet. Sometimes I tell me myself to pedal properly but I find after 2 minutes I feel as if I'm using more of my energy as oppose to simply pressing down. I must be doing something wrong.....or it could be that my achilles tendon is slightly underdeveloped so i have a low range of movement with my ankle.

$84 gets you rolling. A good pair of sneakers alone will cost that. if you got mountain shoes/pedals it would be even cheaper

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...76_-1___202531
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...99_-1___202527

"The full pedal stroke" is essentially a myth. The way human physiology works, it's basically only possible to put meaningful power to the pedals on the downstroke. Studies of elite level athletes have demonstrated this - everyone mashes, and the best peddlers put a bit less downward force on the pedal during the upstroke. A bit less! They aren't pulling up, they're just not weighting it as much. Pedal stroke is super over-analyzed, and it has always struck me as a bit humorous given that it's an extremely prescribed motion that can't be significantly optimized beyond getting the positioning of your contact points (butt, cleats) just right. The benefit to clipless pedals is proprioceptive, maintaining your contact point on the pedal in the most optimal position, not the ability to put out more power throughout the pedal stroke.

I think there is a benefit to a smooth pedal stroke, but I suspect that it is in enabling more comfort at higher cadences. A higher cadence = putting power to the rear wheel more smoothly, which feels better and, depending on the rider, might be a better use of energy. But it's not about power.

You probably are using more energy. I would say you'll be fine if you just keep riding. Smoother form develops naturally with time.

Once when I was going up a hill out of the saddle, I ripped the upper part of my shoe off of the sole from pulling up on the pedal. Yes, clipless. It was interesting riding home after that.

Well, hang on. I suppose I should add a key point - under MOST conditions, people don't pull up. On steep hills, sprinting, etc, sure. There are limited circumstances. But 99% of the time is what I meant. Sorry, I should have made that clear. There are always exceptions. Always.

Exception here. When I occasionally ride in sneakers, the first habit I have to overcome is pulling my feet off the pedals because I'm trying to pedal in a 360° circle. The downstroke does create more driving force, but I do pull up and back.

I've got various ankle and knee problems from old climbing accidents and I find that toe clips and stiff soled shoes give me just enough room for slightly different foot positions for comfort through a ride. Can't be too compromised in efficiency as I completed a century with them..... on a fixed gear.......aged 60. I've just refined and refined my riding style over the years and gradually found the best positions to be in. And I only have one bike which I've had for about fifteen years now. I must be a marketing nightmare! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't use a lot of pulling-up, so toe-clips do the job for me.

FWIW, I'm not a racer or racer wannabe. Just commuting, group rides, and rando-ing. :p

hahahah yea I can see that happening if you pull to hard, and if the shoes are not as tight as they should be

Thanks, today I really tried to focus on the pedalling, and I found at times I think I got this flow and I felt like I was distributing power across the fill 360 circle more than usual. And it felt good, fast, and I found I was using less effort this time. I think I might be getting it a little more now. Can wait to be pushing at top gear for most of my rides........And I think I need to change my tires too. I have 700x28c but there not slicks. I think slicks would make a difference and also smaller tires maybe 25c or 23c (i think those are the numbers, not sure).

I've been using toe clips for about 37 years now and see no need to go clip less. For me, toe clips work GREAT!!!!! :thumb:

Thinner tyres make a huge difference, and high pressures too will make your riding more efficient. ( I nearly said easier but that isn't necessarily what we want!). Keep experimenting, make notes, fine tune and you'll want to ride more and more.

Yeah, those thinner tires are great until you hit some chipseal or rough backcountry roads. Then you wish you were riding the bigger tires again.

I have been using toe clips every since 1996 as a commuter/recreational rider during my college days.

Since I have been only a recreational rider since mid-1999, I still use:

ATB cage pedals with toe clips/straps: [img]http://api.ning.com/files/3Uttyt1tDA...t/toeclips.jpg[/img]

low-profile hiking shoes: [img]http://assets.academy.com/mgen/30/10...jpg?is=500,500[/img]

with these inserts: [img]http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01...ages/cover.gif[/img]

It is much cheaper maintenance-wise than SPD/EggBeater-compatible touring shoes with clipless pedals.

i have a pair of used Dura-Ace 7800 pedals that I will sell you for $50. The pedals are in good condition I upgrade to light weight carbon pedals.