rpeterson

The winner is the lightweight Zipp 404 firecrest clincher of course.

Bacciagalupe

At $2700 for a wheelset, with performance advantages that are probably below all but the most sensitive of instruments, it seems to me that the real winners are Zipp and whoever sells 'em to you.

wphamilton

Put a yo-yo on your spokes. Cheaper and, possibly, greater performance advantage

jmX

Difference was measurable to me, a regular dude with a regular power meter. To me the gain isn't worth what I paid (and I didn't pay full MSRP of course), but I have them now and they do look damn fine and I *do* go faster (than my 32mm carbon reynolds), so meh. Hopefully they'll last years to come, and the years of saved seconds will make it all worth it.

tfro

Where are you getting this information? I haven't seen anything saying that the variable MOI wheels are measurably faster in all cases. The only data I see is that they are faster over a given course. Any claims beyond that are just guesses.

Edit: I found their roll down test, and the only conclusion I got out of it was that the heavier wheel was faster at the bottom of the hill, shocking.

wphamilton

Originally Posted by wphamilton
Am not. Say it again, I'm still not.

If he's measurably faster on sections with heavier wheels, the weight makes a quantifiable difference.

If he's also measurably faster on sections with lighter wheels, the weight makes a quantifiable difference.

If he's measurably faster on all sections with heavier wheels, the weight makes a quantifiable difference.

In all cases, the weight makes a difference. See how that works?



I considered that (see my second post later). It's remotely possible, but certainly not anything approaching the conclusion you appear to believe it is. Why are you arguing with me?
Which "information" in the above post do you have a question about?

tfro

I misread line 4, and thought you were referring to their results directly.

gg-madone

warning: someone may have a chip on their shoulder.
what a small minded comment, but its your opinion, thanks for sharing.

abstractform20

small minded? at least im not a starved, wannabe bike racer riding on fragile components.

your lightweight junk will snap one day, faster than you vs me in an armwrestling match.

Campag4life

OK...who is going to use abstract's quote as their signature? Its a good one. It should be the last word is this less than remarkable thread but it brings up the other parallel universe of light versus strong. Forget light versus fast. Its already been proven that 400 grams = foo foo dust relative to speed.
So Abstract represents the luddite view of brick$h!thaus design. Make it sturdy to last forever. Of course there is a market for that and I do believe by and large a 1300 gram wheelset will require more maintenance and be less strong than a 1800 gram wheelset from a reputable mfr. This thread is all about balance and why I respond to Abstract's quote which you have to admit is pretty funny. I rode 65 miles last night including with some guys on carbon wheels which included climbing and fast flat riding. The guys on carbon wheels weren't faster...lol. And no I won't challenge Abstract to an arm wrestling contest although I am a pretty big guy for a cyclist but don't want to break my arm and my best arm wrestling days are behind me. But...if Abstract rides that 35# steel bike on the ride I was on last night, I would likely drop him. So...its about balance of weight versus cost versus durability versus speed. That's what it always comes down to...even in professional racing. What is missing I believe in this thread is lost perspective about balance. To me a 1800 gram wheelset makes the most sense for the amateur cyclist from a cost, durability and speed perspective. Of course a 1300 gram wheelset will be fractionally faster...but on a long and even competitive ride it is virtually nothing.
PS: variable MOI wheels are a joke.

Gluteus

Can we all get along?


On second thought, that wouldn't be fun....keep on bickering.

Homebrew01

How does a regular dude measure the difference betwen Reynolds 32mm and Zipp 404 ?

njkayaker

Oy!

A belt and suspenders!

rpeterson

Easy, go borrow an SRM/Quarq and do some field testing. Hell you don't even need the SRM, just find a small half-pipe type road to do some coast down testing on.

wphamilton

No problem, I was honestly confused by the question. If I were doing that test I'd repeat with the weights fixed at the rim and then hub, and again with the same weight on the bike (not wheels), and use a power meter or analog to nail down how much effort really changes. I'd probably vary the course also from flat to rolling. I don't think much of their testing ... but I'm not that skeptical of their result. The forces involved in moving a bicycle aren't that large, and small changes can have greater impact than we'd intuitively think.

zigmeister

Paid $1700 for brand new Zipp 303 FC tubulars shipped to my door with Vittoria Corsa CX 320ti tires already mounted.

Zipp 404 FC clinchers at retail don't cost $2700, if somebody was asking that much, you shouldn't be paying that amount.

Bacciagalupe

https://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/zi...-wheelset.html
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/pr...0749.41.1.html
https://www.amazon.com/Zipp-Firecrest.../dp/B001THUL02
https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...400931__400931 plus https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...551_1122288_-1
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...ncher-wheelset
https://www.probikekit.com/us/compone...-clincher.html and https://www.probikekit.com/us/compone...-clincher.html

I'm sure you can get 'em cheaper somewhere else, but $2700 looks like a typical price to me. Tubulars whack about $300 off the price.

You, uh, sure about the provenance on those $1700 303's?

RT

My point exactly.

sleepy

Bump for the lulz.

Fascinating to see the pitched battles between retro-grouchy Disco Stu's livin' in the past and the Seriouzz Racer Boy dooche crews over wheels.
The eggheaded debating rivals the partisan bickering on News Shows.
Speaking as someone who has a Crosscheck and a CAAD10- the CAAD10 is more fun with the gunning and the running. The Surly serves it's purpose as utility.
The CAAD tires out a little quicker and can't go crazy off-road, although I did do that for a second in the SM mountains when I took a wrong turn. The Surly feels like a comfy jeep that get's flexy and annoyingly heavy after a while.
Oops, annoyingly heavy? What's that, lugging around heavy crap isn't pleasant?
Well, duh.
Different creatures. A good middle-weight wheel is nice, and a nice light wheel is awesome for racing.
But whatever, it's all conspiracy to keep us from those awesome 35lbs iron track bikes that the pro's used to race on back in 1904.
Keeping it real!
Dumb.

RT

Not sure what to think about that stream of consciousness. The one that got me in this thread is someone saying that folks 'drag around' 20 lb bikes.

People who don't ride bikes lift mine and think it is made of dreams and helium. Perception outside of this forum is vastly different than the false reality in here.

This forum alone is the industry's best unknown marketing tool for sales to the wanna-be poseur who thinks they need 1,300 gram wheels to be someone they are not.

njkayaker

Are you stoned or stupid?

canam73

He's sleepy.

RT

This thread should die with that clever, hilarious and correct answer.

zigmeister

So you spent the time to come up with the most expensive 404 FC clinchers you could find just to prove my point if you are paying that much for them, you aren't are very good shopper? Clever.

Yes, absolutely sure my 303 FCs are brand new, Zipp, made in the USA.

One of the dumbest posts in this thread yet....congrats on that one.

Agent Cooper

MY bike really IS made of dreams and....um... aluminum.

Anyway, this thread is very interesting and all but how does all this affect my average speed?