feltdude

I'll be in South Africa for 5 weeks beginning Jan 27 in Jo'burg, ending in Cape Town. Anyone from here, who lives there, let me know. Especially if you have an extra bike and want to ride.

RobotSonic

when you get back make sure you post some pics...i was born there and have always wanted to ride there because when ive gone back on vacation and such the scenery looks amazing and a lot of the paved roads are smooth as butter....sorry im no help though

lotek 

feltdude,

I'm not there now, but I lived outside of Jo'burg for 5 years. Send me PM.


Marty

BrettG

I lived in Johannesburg for 30 years and moved to Australian 3 years ago. There are some awesome rides in both Johannesburg and Cape Town. Contact a shop in Johannesburg called Alan Van Heerden Cycles and ask them about the Lido Hotel rides out on the way to the Vaal river. The best ride you will ever do in your life is in Cape Town. Ride from Sea Point to Hout Bay along the coast, you will ride some of the longest winding hills but the view is awesome. If you are keen to do some long rides, keep going though Hout Bay and ride over Chapmans Peak. Our riding group used to train in Cape Town every summer and man was it awesome.

PM me for more info.

TimB

somebody called...

feltdude

Wow, you two rock. Does Alan Van Heerden hire bicycles? I guess I can find out through them. I'll PM you both. Thanks so much.

I'll really be interested in bugging you guys if I decide to move there.

lotek 

If you are going to move there, we need to talk. . .
All I can tell you is what a local told me after I was there 6 months
"Be careful boyke, Africa will get under your skin. . . "
and so it has. I'd move back in a heartbeat, I really miss RSA.

Marty

feltdude

I'm going to look at 3 Universities while I'm out there that the VA will approve. If I am wowed by any of the three - University of the Witwatersrand, University of Pretoria, or University of Cape Town (probably one of the first two, all my friends are in Jo'Burg...) then I'm going to make every effort to sell my house and truck and move out there. Why not?

TimB

why the hell would you want to live in johannesburg?!

lotek 

Timb,

Are you a boer? that would explain things. . .
you are in severe Biltong withdrawl

Marty

feltdude

Because I like it? Why wouldn't you want to?

lotek 

well there is the crime issue.
Jo'burg can be a very dangerous place, and its not just
resticted to certain areas (oh, Don't go to Alexandra (alex)) its
all over. And the crime tends to be extremely violent.
HIV/AIDS is rampant in the country (1 in 9 for entire population,
but I believe its higher, In KwaZulu Natal I bet its 1 in 4 ).
And compared to the rest of the country, Jo'Burg is the pits.

but, what a baie lekker place, eh?

Marty

TimB

a boer!
ya right

Well whats wrong with JHB?! Where do i start.....

crime, well that mainly confined to certain areas but car jacking is everywhere. Not as bad as reported in the papers but still, it should'nt happen.

Break in's a common in all areas

The people in JHB are just dull and like to talk about their money, their mistresses, boy toys (insert appropriate here).
The cyclign up there is a take-your-life-in-your-hands-affair.
no mtbing to speak of....

Durban or Cape Twon are vastly better

RowSen

Welcome to Joburg at the end of the month!

Have a look at www.cyclelab.co.za
Maybe check out the 'cycling clubs' menu option on the left.

Unfortunately, I've only been cycling for about six months and I don't really have a lot of details (or more than one bike).

Don't worry about the crime, it's nothing to get hysterical about.
As for the issue of the people being somehow deficient, as described by 'baas' TimB, - people are pretty much the same wherever you go. If you don't know that, you're pretty clueless.

Have a great time and feel free to get in touch if you need any help of any kind.

Rowan
0836037712

TimB

actually i find the people in JHB to be like those in London, not very friendly.

But if you like JHB and don' mind being in the minority then that also ok. Cape town is only 2 hrs away and Durban 1hr by plane.

Oh we also drive way to fast for our roads or the road worthiness of our vehicles

lotek 

I made it from Rivonia to Sodies (on the beach) in 5 hours once (including the sand road).

Jo'burg isn't so bad. As I've said I'd move back to RSA in a heartbeat.
So TimB your an englesman?

Marty

TimB

keep guessing

lotek 

hmmmn, not a boer, not an englesman, not a bloody tourist
(not from what I can tell from you're posts). prefer Durbs and
the cape (hey laak shuwaa, bru), I know you are an expat
surfer dude, late of uhmlanga. I won't get into ethnic origins
or I might be accused of being "racialist" . First time I heard that
I almost spewed my coffee across the room, guy I've never met before
(local) is babbling on about summat and says "I'm not racial, but. . . "
ok, I've babbled enough for now.
Marty

TimB

Oh come now, I'm not going to be all sensitive about you getting all "racialist" (****that cracks me up). not the same as a "racist" though. Plenty of those to go around in SA. Think they're progressive until they open their mouths, thats when the "I is not a racialistis oak/tannie/ oom, etc comes out...
Not sure what an Englesman is but I'm not a rooi nek engelsman either

lotek 

I didn't think an englesman could be a rooi nek.
englesman is semi-derogetory for englishman just as
dutchman is derogetory for boer (at least thats what I learned).
The funny thing is, when I got there (late 95), no one knew
what to expect (of the new gov't etc), or how to not be racialist,
we (the 'muricans) kept telling them they had a long way to go.
They never did figure it out, I liken it to U.S. mid 60's when it comes
to civil rights etc.
ah for a rooibos and koek sisters.

Marty

mikeyd

Come on kids this is supposed to be be about cycling lets get back to the point here yeah south africa has its bad points but where doesnt, some of the best climbers the tour has ever seen have been colombian and that is not the nicest of places either but.
for all its problems it is starting to produce some pretty damn fine roadies Robert hunter (rabobank) and ryan cox (team barloworld) dont give up on that littel country it still holds the record for the most highly particpated road ride in the world. 30000+
go figure!

TimB

Actually the term "rooi nek" was coined by the boer militia during the Anglo boer war. It was a reference to how the english soldiers always burned red in the sun.

even today, 10.5 yrs after democrasy was voted in by a majority, the minority groups still don;t really know what it means to respect the cultures of others.
Granted this is not a problem unique to SA, but here we're still in denial.
Whats really great is too see the teenagers of today integrating in ways that my generation still hasn't quite got right.
Like you say, it'll take time. In 1994 i figured 20yrs would be a safe bet. I figure i wasn't to far wrong.

Rooibos and koeksusters, hmmmmm

lotek 

Mikeyd this thread was never about the argus,
South African Pros, The Pic n' Pay ride (forget the name)
it was always about South Africa and information about.

Timb,
pardon the poor Afrikaans, I could understand it much better
than speak or god forbid write (I've been known to butcher
memo's more than once, always had someone translate for me).
well from the way you've written I know your not AWB. . .
feel kind of like a doois discussing englesman, dutchmen etc. to
a south african.
While I worked with quite a few folks who were really pining for
the old days, most were accepting (to a degree). The one thing
I did notice tho were that alot of people (not just whites) were
very afraid of a "Cape to Cairo" kind of thing, but that is more
about Gov't than people.
Integration is one thing, heck it would be good if we could get past
zulu hating sotho (southern) hating xhosa, hating Ndebele etc.
(big apology for butchering spelling there).

Do you know how much of a case of "homesickness" this thread
is evoking?

TimB

Ya i can imagine.
I felt it a lot while living in the UK.

Despite a lot of positive changes there are still people who yearn for the old days as incredible as this may seem.
Very few people give the government credit for their long term strategy and lots still blame the government for poverty not being eliminated.

However white owned businesses do little help the issue and in fact are promoting unemployment through disinvesting in the local economy.
Despite this the middle class is getting bigger but unfortunately so are the poor.

The country still has a long way to go but the most progress has probably been made during Mbeki's years, controversial as the media makes him out to be.
Still I think history will record him differently..

lotek 

hmmm, Mbeki is a very controversial leader. Some of what he has said
I find disturbing, yet in other areas he is absofreakinglutely brilliant.
i.e. his views on aids (disturbing) and his economic policys (brilliant).
The thing that scares me the most is his view on the land redistribution
ala Zimbabwe. I've read where he feels RSA needs a similiar redistribution.
While I agree to some extent, the voertrekkers, colonial Brits et al have been
there long enough, paid their dues and are South Africans. . ya ken wha I'm sayyin?
The problem with Zim (as I see it) is that the redistribution broke up the large
farms which were a major cash producer in the country. Take a multithousand
hectare farm earning millions of Zim dollars per annum turn it into a few thousand
multiAcre substinanace farms and all that money coming into the country dries up.
a sticky wicket for sure.
ok, enough sub Saharan eco/political discussion.
Timb, you involved in diving at all? know The Dive Shop in Sandton City?
Aliwal Charters in Umkomaas?
Marty

(TimB. . . suspiciously like an anglicized Themba, hmmmmm)