Old or new technology
 

I'm looking to get back into road biking and I'm down to 2 choices. A bike shop here has a number of vintage but brand new never been ridden Bianchis in that cool celesti green. The one I'm interested in is a late 1980's, early 90's model called Vittoria. It has a Tange steel frame and anodized clincher rims. The components are all Shimano 600. Down tube friction shifters, (No problem I'm used to these.) 14 speed. Asking price is $1200.00. My other choice is a 2012 Jamis steel Satellite Comp with the 9 speed cassette and modern shifters. Price $1000.00
The Bianchi fits well or they could order the Jamis in my size. I'm staying up at night trying to decide.

Bikes have come a very long way since the late 80's. Even low end modern bikes are far superior to old high end bikes. All components have improved, but primarily wheels and component groups have gotten vastly better. Modern frames are also lighter and much stiffer. You need to ask yourself whats your primary motivation. If you are just interested in riding then go with the modern bike. On the other hand, if nostalgia and/or a certain look is your overriding interest, then go with one of the vintage bikes.

go modern. shop around...

For $1,000 - $1,200 you can buy a decent new modern bike or a used good modern one. The differences between new and bikes from the 1980's are amazing.

im so glad i read this post i realy thought the old bikes was way better glad i didnt spend my money on a old bike this forum rocks

Thank you for the input. I think I'll go modern. Plus the Jamis is a triple with a good granny gear for these aging legs. 61 years old.

Another vote for new (modern) bike.

I gotta agree with everyone on the modern bike. I rode my grandfathers old steel road bike (its a 80 something) and I hated it, I would rather ride my mtb(a 98 schwin) than his old road bike. And this year I bought a new road bike and I cant believe I waited so long for this because its some much more enjoyable.

I kinda like the old Bianchis. However, I'll reluctantly vote for the Jamis Satellite Comp....

Likin' 'em and paying $1200 for one are two entirely different things.

My old Bianchi had Tange steel tubing and if I recall, it wasn't anything special. $600 new in 92.

If $1200 is a lot a money to you, then it might be well worth your while to invest elsewhere...Agreed! :thumb:

Agreed.

I was thinking $1200 was a bit high for a (very) left-over Bianchi. I doubt they retailed for that back when they were new and time has passed them by so based on price I have to (reluctantly as well) say go with the Jamis.

Just to be a contrarian I'll say that if the price was better this wouldn't be so clear cut. I doubt the frame on the Jamis is any better than the Tange steel Bianchi and since you are used to down-tube shifters that isn't an issue. By the early 90s down-tube shifters were at their peak. Shimano 600 (Ultegra nowadays) was always good stuff and the Jamis isn't high-line enough to have the benefits of the better wheel technology that is definitely available today.

If it were a Columbus framed Bianchi...

You missed that by a few years. Indexed shifting came out in 1984/85 with Dura Ace and had spread to 105 in 1988. It was hard to even find a bike sold in 1989 without index.

I wouldn't say that modern is "better" or "superior". It's just different. That thing is certain. Besides that, certainty goes out the window. I personally prefer vintage and not because of nostalgia or certain look and I am definitely interested in riding.

The Bianchi's not a bad bike. Shimano 600 is Ultegra level, so that was a pretty good bike in the day.

As everyon else has said, the modern bike is still going to be better.

Also how the hell does the shop have a number of 20+ year old NOS bikes. I'd worry about the fact they've sit unused for that time.

I'd buy the new bike, or offer the LBS $500-600 on the Bianchi.

With the caveat that I'm a relative neophyte, I respectfully disagree. I certainly don't think or have any reason to believe the low end modern bikes are anywhere near the quality of older, high end bikes. I've ridden older bikes with Shimano 600 that was much cleaner, crisper and smoother shifting than new Ultegra. And if you're going with steel, high end old steel is certainly better than low end new steel. Finally, I'm not sure I'd pay that much for a Satellite Comp as a few months ago a dealer was offering me a Jamis Quest, which is better steel and better components, for $1,300 (and I think I could have got him down to $1,200, but I ended up buying an 81 Raleigh Team Pro instead .... I note that to disclose my bias :-). If you're going the Jamis route, see what price they'll give you on a Quest. My impression from the well below list prices I was offered is that the dealer mark up on a Jamis must be pretty high.

The foregoing is a general old v. new response. I lack the expertise to have any opinion on what the Bianchi in question is worth.

I think (most) older bikes have many advantages over (most) newer bikes. $1200 is too much for that bike though, even if it is NOS.

Ask this question in the C&V section of this board and you will probably get a much different answer.

I'm with Spock on this. There have been improvements, and there have been changes that weren't improvements, made for marketing or financial reasons (IMO, for instance, threadless headsets--harder to adjust than quill stems, with no clear advantages). I don't even have much use for indexed shifting in everyday riding (but I'm not interested in debating it...).
I could be happy with either bike--but $1200 seems like WAY too much for that Bianchi.

First, the Bianchi in question appears to be a mid range bike, not high end. The fact that it was spec'd with Shimano 600 means it was a notch or two or three down from the top.

As to the frame, if it is Tange Prestige, and hand built, then you may have an argument. The new bike is REynolds 520, which is a decent cro mo tubeset.

If the Bianchi isn't Tange Prestige, then it is likely also 4130 Cro Mo and the tubeset itself is essentially the same as the Jamis. Add in the fact that the Jamis is Tig welded, not lugged, and the Jamis frameset is likely lighter.


Next issue: Headset, stem, steerer tube. The Jamis is threadless, the Bianchi is threaded. This adds up to a 1-2 pound advantage for the Jamis, as well as being stiffer, easier to adjust the headset, and longer lasting bearings.

While we're on it, bearings. Most all the bearings on the Jamis are sealed, most likely not so on the Bianchi.

Groupset. I've had owned every generation of indexed shifting that Shimano has ever produced, except 7900. Any thought that down tube seven speed is better than modern STI is simply romanticized nostalgia.

Wheels: Wheels have gotten a lot better in the last quarter century, both lighter and more durable.

Tires: The tires on the Jamis don't have 20 plus years of dry rot.

Upgrades/ Replacements. Standards have changed, and it won't be easy to change or replace certain things on the Bianchi, such as stems, handlebars.

My first "good" bike was a Bianchi, I had a Schwinn Paramount until a couple of years ago, and I still have a Paramount Track bike.

All nice bikes, but my sense of nostalgia doesn't change the fact that bikes have improved, Grant Peterson not withstanding.

I use downtube shifters because I'm a nostalgic romantic :-). But I did find Shimano 600 STI from ~20 years ago to be amazingly better than brand new Ultegra STI. Although that may in part be a function of a 7 speed rig being crisper than 9 or 10 speed.

There's nothing wrong with that Bianchi. In fact, it sounds like quite a nice bike. But at $1200, the choice is obvious - get the Jamis. The new stuff really is better, and I say that as someone who is a major fan of late 80's, early 90's bikes. That was a good time for bikes, as it represented the time period when truly modern refinements were appearing, like indexed shifting, extensive standardization of threading and other dimensions, inexpensive wheels that didn't suck, and so on, but bikes still had that slender, classic look. Not that I dislike the way bicycles look now! But the marriage of classic lines and relatively modern technology was a cool thing.

But, as I was saying, the same money is going to get you a lighter bike with integrated shifting and all the gears you could possibly want. It's hard to say no to that. I really LIKE old bikes, but an old bike, even a very nice old bike, for new bike money? That's not a good bargain. We're not talking about something that was new five years ago, we're talking about a bike that was new 20+ years ago. That's a very long time.

And I respectfully disagree with your disagreement on all counts! Shimano 600 DT shifters are incredibly, marvelously good. I've had them, and loved them. But it's pure nostalgia to insist that they're better than modern integrated shifters. I really like the feel of an indexed DT shifter: the short, clean cable run to the rear derailleur and the lack of any dead lever travel makes them feel incredibly snappy and positive. But having the shifting at your fingertips is incredibly powerful and feels just as good to me. No comment on pricing! That's a can of worms. :)

In your opinion indeed! I've ridden and wrenched (for a paycheck*, I might add, albeit briefly) on lots of bikes, both old and new, and for my money the threadless headset is a huge leap forward. I must respectfully disagree with your contention that they're harder to adjust than a threaded headset - to the contrary, they are far, far easier to work on, and hold their adjustment far more reliably. This is especially true at the low end of the market. It's thanks to threadless headsets that entry-level bicycle purchasers now get extremely reliable headsets that can be trusted to hold their adjustment, are easily adjusted when that adjustment gets too loose, and are still reasonably light. And there are of course the benefits of lighter weight, etc. The only advantage of a quill stem is easy height adjustment of the handlebars, an overrated feature if there ever was one.

Dead on, of course, on the price. At even $500 or $600, I would snatch that Bianchi right up. At $1200, no way.


*For the wrenching, not the riding!

If the Bianchi were a Columbus tubed, Campy-equipped, Italian made model, it might fetch $1200 in the collector market. An 80's Japanese Bianchi, as nice as it is, isn't going to get more than half that from me.