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Benefits of tubulars over clincher wheelsets?

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Benefits of tubulars over clincher wheelsets?

Old 06-20-12, 06:11 PM
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Benefits of tubulars over clincher wheelsets?

enlighten thee
 
Old 06-20-12, 06:12 PM
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Thee?
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Old 06-20-12, 06:13 PM
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Are you implying we enlighten ourselves?
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Old 06-20-12, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred View Post
Are you implying we enlighten ourselves?
was hoping you could enlighten me. OBVIOUSLY
 
Old 06-20-12, 06:20 PM
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Less weight - esp. when considering the total rim/tire/tube system

Quicker to change a flat on the road (not counting the repair/patch time later at home)

When changing a flat you replace the whole tire/tube so there's no need to search for the cause in the tire - or to get a second flat if you missed it (but you still need to look later if repairing it at home)

Far less likely to pinch flat and can therefore be run at lower pressure

Can be ridden much more easily when flat (e.g. when flatting within sight of the finish line)

Different handling and feel which some riders prefer

Note that these advantages weren't sufficient for me to even consider getting another set of tubulars once the set that came with my bike were worn out.
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Old 06-20-12, 06:22 PM
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search function will serve you well on this subject.
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Old 06-20-12, 06:23 PM
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None.

Unless you race and then that's questionable.

Or you would rather pose and b1tch about how expensive they are, how hard they are to patch, how messy the glue is, blah ba blah ba blah.

Only rich or wanna be rich non pros ride 'em.
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Old 06-20-12, 06:23 PM
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Since you asked the benefits of the wheels (and not tires) - this should be a straight forward thread

Tubular wheel advantages:

1) Lighter than their clincher counterpart
2) No rim tape, strips, or plugs required
3) Less prone to the heating issue experienced by carbon clinchers during heavy braking

I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of
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Old 06-20-12, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
search function will serve you well on this subject.
Are you suggesting that the 426 existing threads on this topic have enough information to be useful ?
But the troll wants fresh food
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Old 06-20-12, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Are you suggesting that the 426 existing threads on this topic have enough information to be useful ?
But the troll wants fresh food
only 426? I assumed there was many more...in that case, bring on the troll food.
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Old 06-20-12, 06:41 PM
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John Neugent's (Neuvation Cycling) daily newsletter lately has been all about your question....

June 14. "
Tubulars or clinchers?I get this question all the time. In the old days most real bike riders rode on tubulars because there were no good clincher options. Now there are. And what complicates it even more is that there are some nice tubeless clinchers.
One fact is clear, the pros all race almost exclusively on tubulars because they believe they are faster, handle better, and are more comfortable. Most people, but not all, believe that to be true.
My personal solution (and I can pretty much ride what I want) is for tubulars with sealant. You can either install the sealant (like I do) or carry it with you to use in case you get a flat. Tire sealants work. I also carry a cell phone in case I hit something big – or occasionally a spare tire when a cell phone won’t work. I ride them because I believe the downsides are worth the upsides.
The upsides are – you can run them with lower pressure because pinch flats won’t happen – lower pressure is better for almost everything. They are lighter. Finally, if you get a flat, the tire stays on so they are safer (a big concern of mine).
The downsides are – they cost a lot more money especially when you consider a flat could well mean a new tire (the sealant almost always means you will wear the tire out first). They are not a hassle to install the first time (I use tape) but after that it’s a pain to remove and replace them – especially on carbon rims (which I prefer). The easy solution to that is to have an employee do it but most people don’t have that option.

The new carbon wheels I offer are now only available in tubular so lots of people are picking my brain on it. Also note the are actually 25 mm wide (so super wide) and will accept a nice big wide tire. I like to ride 27 mm tires because the traction, cornering, ride quality and performance are amazing – especially on a wide rim."

June 18: "
Tire sealant – the game changer for tubulars.It’s clear from lots of e-mails I get the most people who do not own tubulars are somewhat on the fence because there are still lots of compromises involved in using them. I had pretty much given up too until I discovered the real benefits of tire sealant.
For me, the hassle of tubulars has always been fixing flats. Often I had to trash a tire because it had a tiny flat and I destroyed the tire taking if off or didn’t want to hassle with it. Tire sealant changed all of that by letting me get the full tire life of out virtually all of my tires. It does that because, unless you really gash the tire, you can either fix it with sealant (carry a bottle of it instead of a tube) or put sealant in it to begin with.
How good does it work? With the tubeless clincher tires there is no way I can inflate a tire with a floor pump unless I put the sealant in. Imagine a tire without a tube in the wheel. Now imagine trying to inflate it. There are so many gaping holes at the bead there is no way you can do it. The sealant closes leaks so well you can easily inflate it (don’t try this with a non tubless tire unless you like to be coated with sealant when it explodes off the rim). My assembler only made that mistake once.
But, if all I have to do is replace a tire once for its entire life, I can deal with it. Especially since it drastically reduces the number of flats I get. Then I get all of the added benefits of a tubular with only a slight amount of hassle."

June 20: Why and why not go tubeless?

One of my former wheel testers, and former Bicycling Magazine editor, Jim Langley, said once you go tubeless you will never go back. He was absolutely convinced that road bikes would become tubeless after the first time tested them. But for the most part people don’t use tubeless tires. What’s up?
The benefits are that you get better rolling resistance and a more comfortable ride because there is no tube inside (the interface between tube and tire causes a small amount of energy), and you can run lower tire pressures because you can’t pinch flat a tube that isn’t there. You don’t really save much in weight – it’s more about the ride quality and handling than anything else. Plus, you get far fewer flats.
The downsides are you have to deal with sealant (you can technically ride without it but almost no one does). If the sealant does happen to come out it’s really messy and will be extremely hard to remove if it dries. It also is a little bit intimidating to do the first time because your mind refuses to believe the tire will inflate without a tube.
All Neuvaton clincher wheels are tubeless compatible with the addition of the Stan’s No Tubes system. You don’t have to buy special wheels but you should only use tubeless specific tires. They have a carbon bead that keeps them from stretching and blowing off.
The link below brings you to articles on tire sealant from Leonard Zinn. If you go through all of the links you will know more about tire sealant that you probably want to know.

Thanks for reading - John Neugent"




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Old 06-20-12, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Less weight - esp. when considering the total rim/tire/tube system

Quicker to change a flat on the road (not counting the repair/patch time later at home)

When changing a flat you replace the whole tire/tube so there's no need to search for the cause in the tire - or to get a second flat if you missed it (but you still need to look later if repairing it at home)

Far less likely to pinch flat and can therefore be run at lower pressure

Can be ridden much more easily when flat (e.g. when flatting within sight of the finish line)

Different handling and feel which some riders prefer

Note that these advantages weren't sufficient for me to even consider getting another set of tubulars once the set that came with my bike were worn out.
thank you sir

Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
None.

Unless you race and then that's questionable.

Or you would rather pose and b1tch about how expensive they are, how hard they are to patch, how messy the glue is, blah ba blah ba blah.

Only rich or wanna be rich non pros ride 'em.
i do plan on racing so i guess this means i should consider them, but i dont want to come off as a wannabe pro

Originally Posted by simonaway427 View Post
Since you asked the benefits of the wheels (and not tires) - this should be a straight forward thread

Tubular wheel advantages:

1) Lighter than their clincher counterpart
2) No rim tape, strips, or plugs required
3) Less prone to the heating issue experienced by carbon clinchers during heavy braking

I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of
thank you very much

Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Are you suggesting that the 426 existing threads on this topic have enough information to be useful ?
But the troll wants fresh food
It's amazing how little some of you want to help someone, and how you would much rather propose the search function whenever someone asks something. If everybody used the search function, new threads and conversations would cease to exist. Thanks for your concern though...

Originally Posted by Nils View Post
John Neugent's (Neuvation Cycling) daily newsletter lately has been all about your question....

June 14. "
Tubulars or clinchers?I get this question all the time. In the old days most real bike riders rode on tubulars because there were no good clincher options. Now there are. And what complicates it even more is that there are some nice tubeless clinchers.
One fact is clear, the pros all race almost exclusively on tubulars because they believe they are faster, handle better, and are more comfortable. Most people, but not all, believe that to be true.
My personal solution (and I can pretty much ride what I want) is for tubulars with sealant. You can either install the sealant (like I do) or carry it with you to use in case you get a flat. Tire sealants work. I also carry a cell phone in case I hit something big – or occasionally a spare tire when a cell phone won’t work. I ride them because I believe the downsides are worth the upsides.
The upsides are – you can run them with lower pressure because pinch flats won’t happen – lower pressure is better for almost everything. They are lighter. Finally, if you get a flat, the tire stays on so they are safer (a big concern of mine).
The downsides are – they cost a lot more money especially when you consider a flat could well mean a new tire (the sealant almost always means you will wear the tire out first). They are not a hassle to install the first time (I use tape) but after that it’s a pain to remove and replace them – especially on carbon rims (which I prefer). The easy solution to that is to have an employee do it but most people don’t have that option.

The new carbon wheels I offer are now only available in tubular so lots of people are picking my brain on it. Also note the are actually 25 mm wide (so super wide) and will accept a nice big wide tire. I like to ride 27 mm tires because the traction, cornering, ride quality and performance are amazing – especially on a wide rim."

June 18: "
Tire sealant – the game changer for tubulars.It’s clear from lots of e-mails I get the most people who do not own tubulars are somewhat on the fence because there are still lots of compromises involved in using them. I had pretty much given up too until I discovered the real benefits of tire sealant.
For me, the hassle of tubulars has always been fixing flats. Often I had to trash a tire because it had a tiny flat and I destroyed the tire taking if off or didn’t want to hassle with it. Tire sealant changed all of that by letting me get the full tire life of out virtually all of my tires. It does that because, unless you really gash the tire, you can either fix it with sealant (carry a bottle of it instead of a tube) or put sealant in it to begin with.
How good does it work? With the tubeless clincher tires there is no way I can inflate a tire with a floor pump unless I put the sealant in. Imagine a tire without a tube in the wheel. Now imagine trying to inflate it. There are so many gaping holes at the bead there is no way you can do it. The sealant closes leaks so well you can easily inflate it (don’t try this with a non tubless tire unless you like to be coated with sealant when it explodes off the rim). My assembler only made that mistake once.
But, if all I have to do is replace a tire once for its entire life, I can deal with it. Especially since it drastically reduces the number of flats I get. Then I get all of the added benefits of a tubular with only a slight amount of hassle."

June 20: Why and why not go tubeless?

One of my former wheel testers, and former Bicycling Magazine editor, Jim Langley, said once you go tubeless you will never go back. He was absolutely convinced that road bikes would become tubeless after the first time tested them. But for the most part people don’t use tubeless tires. What’s up?
The benefits are that you get better rolling resistance and a more comfortable ride because there is no tube inside (the interface between tube and tire causes a small amount of energy), and you can run lower tire pressures because you can’t pinch flat a tube that isn’t there. You don’t really save much in weight – it’s more about the ride quality and handling than anything else. Plus, you get far fewer flats.
The downsides are you have to deal with sealant (you can technically ride without it but almost no one does). If the sealant does happen to come out it’s really messy and will be extremely hard to remove if it dries. It also is a little bit intimidating to do the first time because your mind refuses to believe the tire will inflate without a tube.
All Neuvaton clincher wheels are tubeless compatible with the addition of the Stan’s No Tubes system. You don’t have to buy special wheels but you should only use tubeless specific tires. They have a carbon bead that keeps them from stretching and blowing off.
The link below brings you to articles on tire sealant from Leonard Zinn. If you go through all of the links you will know more about tire sealant that you probably want to know.

Thanks for reading - John Neugent"




Thanks very much for all the info and a citation greatly appreciated
 
Old 06-20-12, 06:52 PM
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thanx for posting this info....
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Old 06-20-12, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
search function will serve thee well on this subject.
There - that's better now
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Old 06-20-12, 07:19 PM
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I'm poor and I have one set of tubular rims. Vittoria Rally tires ride better than any $25 clincher I've tried.

Another bonus not mentioned yet, you can catch a nice buzz off the glue
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Old 06-20-12, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
I'm poor and I have one set of tubular rims. Vittoria Rally tires ride better than any $25 clincher I've tried.

Another bonus not mentioned yet, you can catch a nice buzz off the glue
sold.
 
Old 06-20-12, 08:54 PM
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For more information, here's Dave Moulton's blog entry on the topic. For the OP, yes, many racers use them. But keep in mind, many do not, especially for us in the lower categories.

Here are some of my thoughts on this thread...
  • They are an additional expense compared to clinchers. However, this can be mitigated somewhat. My clinchers, Michelin Pro3Race's cost me about $40 (with shipping). The really good tubulars that I race, Vittoria EVO-CX II, cost me about $55 (with shipping).
  • A good point in tubular's favor is you don't pinch flat, and races are occasionally run on poor pavement.
  • Another point in their favor is they corner better because they don't deform as much, good for criteriums especially. (This is the main reason I ride them. Being a larger rider, I like that they maintain their shape under my fat load. In fact, I am in the beginning phases of moving to tubulars for daily riding.)
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Old 06-21-12, 05:41 AM
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I ride Continental GP 24 clinchers when training.

Vittoria Corsa EVO-CX II tubulars for racing.

The Conti's measure 24mm wide, while the Vittoria's are 21mm wide. The Vittoria's are smoother, grippy-er, and handle better in all conditions. I gave them some Stan's sealant during install to prevent mid-race flats, but have no idea how effective the sealant is... (part of the point of the sealant is it just works...). I suppose if the tires wear out before I get a flat, that's a pretty good testament. Until then, I'll stick with clinchers for everything except racing.

Pricing:
The Conti's cost me $65 for the pair with tubes
The Vitt's cost me $120 for the pair with sealant and glue
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Old 06-21-12, 08:40 AM
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Quicker to change a flat on the road (not counting the repair/patch time later at home)

When changing a flat you replace the whole tire/tube so there's no need to search for the cause in the tire - or to get a second flat if you missed it (but you still need to look later if repairing it at home)
When you mount the new one, dont you need to apply some glue again? Wouldn't it be dangerous not to?

*given the situation you're out on a ride and you're about 50km away from home.
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Old 06-21-12, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Biscayne05 View Post
When you mount the new one, dont you need to apply some glue again? Wouldn't it be dangerous not to?

*given the situation you're out on a ride and you're about 50km away from home.
It's pre-glued. Holds up very well in straight lines, just don't corner very fast.
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Old 06-21-12, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Biscayne05 View Post
When you mount the new one, dont you need to apply some glue again? Wouldn't it be dangerous not to?

*given the situation you're out on a ride and you're about 50km away from home.
Your spare should have a base of glue so there's a little bit of adhesion. Pressure will keep it on pretty well. It's fine to ride on the straights, but take it easy in the corners. Then do a proper glue job when you get home.

I haven't used tape, but perhaps if you bring a roll with you, you could bring a new tire & do it on the road ?
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Old 06-21-12, 08:55 AM
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Gotcha. Thanks guys.

Also, how good/bad are tubulars for retaining air ? How do you actually take out some air from the valve with the extender mounted on it? (this is in case you've over inflated).

I know on my clinchers I have to inflate every 2 rides (or 2 days if consecutive days of riding).
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Old 06-21-12, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
None.

Unless you race and then that's questionable.

Or you would rather pose and b1tch about how expensive they are, how hard they are to patch, how messy the glue is, blah ba blah ba blah.

Only rich or wanna be rich non pros ride 'em.
Really?? A fairly large percentage of the local racers use them...

For training I stick to the clinchers for ease if there's a flat, but race day...tubulars baby! Nothing compares to the feel of riding a good set of tubulars...Period!
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Old 06-21-12, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Biscayne05 View Post
Gotcha. Thanks guys.

Also, how good/bad are tubulars for retaining air ? How do you actually take out some air from the valve with the extender mounted on it? (this is in case you've over inflated).

I know on my clinchers I have to inflate every 2 rides (or 2 days if consecutive days of riding).
Depends on the tire...My wife's tubular tire needs inflating each and ever time she rides...Mine, I can go a few days just like my clinchers...
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Old 06-21-12, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rbart4506 View Post
Depends on the tire...My wife's tubular tire needs inflating each and ever time she rides...Mine, I can go a few days just like my clinchers...
Many tubulars have latex tubes. Betcha your wife's tires have latex tubes, and yours are buytl.

As for taking out air with valve extenders, 1) get good valve extenders, the type where the valve core is removed from the valve, and screws back into the valve extender. 2) failing No 1, poke the valve with a stick (bamboo grilling skewers work well.)
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