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1st cycling shoes. kness immediately sore after any sprint.

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1st cycling shoes. kness immediately sore after any sprint.

Old 07-29-12, 11:51 PM
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chris675D
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1st cycling shoes. kness immediately sore after any sprint.

I finally went clipless 2days ago, I ended up getting delta look cleats with zero float. I've been messing with the cleat adjustment and its getting a bit better overall. but any time I sprint my legs become sore right away. what gives?
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Old 07-29-12, 11:54 PM
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More info needed. Is it your knees, or legs? Front or back of the knee? or what set of muscles. Have you thought about a bike fitting? well worth the money.
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Old 07-29-12, 11:59 PM
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Its my legs in general. I've been riding for about 3 years with toe clips and sprinting never made me quite as sore. I raised my seat about 1 cm since the pedals and shoes raised me up a bit. My bike fit is pretty decent for now. but in the future I will get a proper fit.
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Old 07-30-12, 12:55 AM
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Stop sprinting. What's the rush?
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Old 07-30-12, 01:01 AM
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To catch a light..or just for fun?
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Old 07-30-12, 02:28 AM
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My only concern would be the zero float and are we talking leg "burn" or actual pain that persists after the sprint.
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Old 07-30-12, 02:43 AM
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Just a burn, but that would never happen before going clipless and I sprint a lot since I ride on the track
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Old 07-30-12, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by chris675D View Post
I finally went clipless 2days ago, I ended up getting delta look cleats with zero float. I've been messing with the cleat adjustment and its getting a bit better overall. but any time I sprint my legs become sore right away. what gives?
You are asking for serious problems with the zero float cleats, self-installed as a first time user. Even when the cleats are properly adjusted at a bike shop, zero float is only safe if your legs track perfectly while pedaling. This can only be determined by a fitter.

My advice: Get cleats with at least 6 degrees of float and have them installed and adjusted at a bike shop. It will take only a few miles to damage your knees, especially with zero float.
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Old 07-30-12, 05:41 AM
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Just the thought of zero float makes my knees hurt. Get some pedals with float, your knees will thank you.
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Old 07-30-12, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chris675D View Post
look cleats with zero float
For a person new to mechanical binding to use zero float is a great fault of the sales associate that suggested them to you. Zero float came from an old school of thought that, like ski bindings, knee should not move. Wrong wrong wrong. Higher cadence, and more movement, you are destroying your knees.
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Old 07-30-12, 05:49 AM
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I had the same concerns as well but at the bike shop I asked the owner and he said they would be fine for longer rides. I'm using the bike on the track as well. I don't think they make 4.5 degree float delta cleats. which is the size I need.
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Old 07-30-12, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TriEngineer View Post
For a person new to mechanical binding to use zero float is a great fault of the sales associate that suggested them to you. Zero float came from an old school of thought that, like ski bindings, knee should not move. Wrong wrong wrong. Higher cadence, and more movement, you are destroying your knees.
I ride with no float and have since the cleat nailed into the shoe/toe clip days. But my cleats have always been fitted for me and as a result I have no issues at all.

My only point is that your comment is not an absolute. When Ii was racing I was riding 25,000 miles a year without any float.
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Old 07-30-12, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by chris675D View Post
I had the same concerns as well but at the bike shop I asked the owner and he said they would be fine for longer rides. I'm using the bike on the track as well. I don't think they make 4.5 degree float delta cleats. which is the size I need.
Delta was red or black only with red at 9 degrees and black at zero. Keo has the 4.5 grey cleat. Those are standard on a new pedal purchase...they come with a set of pedals.
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Old 07-30-12, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
I ride with no float and have since the cleat nailed into the shoe/toe clip days. But my cleats have always been fitted for me and as a result I have no issues at all.
I ride no float and I set up my own cleats. I have no knee problems. It's not hard to set up your cleats if you are willing to take the time and pay attention.
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Old 07-30-12, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
I ride no float and I set up my own cleats. I have no knee problems. It's not hard to set up your cleats if you are willing to take the time and pay attention.
You are lucky.

In my case, i have six pairs of shoes, and different manufacturers which due to sole differences require slightly differnt setups.

If your feet never get sore and your toes never go numb, and your knees and hips never hurt, then you hit it...and if your legs are exactly t he same length and you have been able to factor in the amount of pronation or supination into your setup...you got it without help. Youd be in the one tenth of one percent that pull that off.

Other than crashing, the fastest way to hurt yourself riding is with a bad cleat setup. Same as running. Its why all my running friends, serious ones anyway, have the correct shoes for their running motion.
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Old 07-30-12, 11:53 AM
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1. Get the cleats fit by a proper bike fitter
2. S/He will be able to recommend pedals with float, if needed
3. You are working more muscles with clipless than you are with just toe cages (on the up-stroke, mainly) which could be what is causing your legs to burn. Basically, you're engaging muscles you aren't used to engaging - this is good as you are being more efficient and have more power potential once you get accustom to it (eventually).
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Old 07-30-12, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chris675D View Post
4.5 degree float delta cleats
they do.
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Old 07-30-12, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
I ride with no float and have since the cleat nailed into the shoe/toe clip days. But my cleats have always been fitted for me and as a result I have no issues at all.

My only point is that your comment is not an absolute. When Ii was racing I was riding 25,000 miles a year without any float.
A rider's heel-in/heel-out angle depends on the cadence of the rider and the position of the foot as it travels around the crank. As the knee goes through flexion and extension, they do not maintain in the same vertical plane and rather will drift outwards and inwards. Since medial rotation is done through the femoral head and hip socket, pedal float allows this rotation to be carried out using your external and internal rotator muscle groups, rather than adversely affecting your ACL and PCL. Having no float and presuming the fitter set your pedals to a duckfooted gait, will be ideal between the 1 to 6 o'clock pedal position but the position puts undue amount of strain in the knee during the deactivation cycle. Whether we are discussing 4.5, 6, 9 or 15, this is a spectrum of acceptable float and by having a pedal with float, it allows the natural tendencies of your ext and int rotator muscles to dictate the amount of medial rotation that's happening as the foot travels around the BB. Some of the earliest fitters in the industry, like Ben Serotta and Paul Swift, have concluded that float is an integral part of the bike fit and having float is more preferable to none at all.

That's my opinion as someone who fits bikes for a living, and who knows, if you didn't have no float at all, maybe you would be riding 30000 miles a year.
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Old 07-31-12, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TriEngineer View Post
they do.

I can't find any.
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Old 07-31-12, 01:37 AM
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Float is a preference. Some riders do fine without it, some need a lot of float (e.g. Speedplay). Try the RED Delta cleats. I have them and they have 6 degrees I believe. They work for me.
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Old 07-31-12, 01:56 AM
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I got to try some shoes with lots of float and another with no float. I didn't like having no float cause I felt constricted. so I went with a middle float cleat. feels great and still stable.
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Old 07-31-12, 03:42 AM
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My feet assume a different angle when standing on the padals to what they do while sitting. For me, no float/the wrong float would be nasty for sprinting. While sitting I could be happy with no float as my foot rotation is minimal and would be taken up by slack/ wear in the cleat and movement in the shoe.

For your first pedals, you would be better served with some float, even if you decide to go back to fixed later.
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Old 07-31-12, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TriEngineer View Post
A rider's heel-in/heel-out angle depends on the cadence of the rider and the position of the foot as it travels around the crank. As the knee goes through flexion and extension, they do not maintain in the same vertical plane and rather will drift outwards and inwards. Since medial rotation is done through the femoral head and hip socket, pedal float allows this rotation to be carried out using your external and internal rotator muscle groups, rather than adversely affecting your ACL and PCL. Having no float and presuming the fitter set your pedals to a duckfooted gait, will be ideal between the 1 to 6 o'clock pedal position but the position puts undue amount of strain in the knee during the deactivation cycle. Whether we Mare discussing 4.5, 6, 9 or 15, this is a spectrum of acceptable float and by having a pedal with float, it allows the natural tendencies of your ext and int rotator muscles to dictate the amount of medial rotation that's happening as the foot travels around the BB. Some of the earliest fitters in the industry, like Ben Serotta and Paul Swift, have concluded that float is an integral part of the bike fit and having float is more preferable to none at all.

That's my opinion as someone who fits bikes for a living, and who knows, if you didn't have no float at all, maybe you would be riding 30000 miles a year.
I rode 25000 because the people that were paying me to race the bike set the season and the training. And i also fit. And when i was nine years old and riding with toe clips that had no float, from day one everything was set up for me. Thus i cannot stand to have my feet wallowing around in the pedal, especially when climbing or standing.

The most miles i ever heard of was Ekimov at close to 40,000. No float.

Im 57 and rode 50 miles on saturday and another 50 on sunday at about 23mph average and have zero issues with knees....and i played hockey for30 years as well. And my fitter, with whom i work was trained by Ben Serotta. Fwiw.

I do not recommend fixed, but for me it works perfectly. Has, forever.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 07-31-12 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 07-31-12, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by robncircus View Post
Float is a preference. Some riders do fine without it, some need a lot of float (e.g. Speedplay). Try the RED Delta cleats. I have them and they have 6 degrees I believe. They work for me.
Actually they have nine degrees of float. The KEOs have 9, 4.5, and zero. Red, grey, black in order.
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Old 07-31-12, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
I do not recommend fixed, but for me it works perfectly. Has, forever.
Very interesting indeed!!
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