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What is the advantage of high profile rims?

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What is the advantage of high profile rims?

Old 08-22-12, 03:50 AM
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What is the advantage of high profile rims?

I was watching USA Pro Challenge tour and noticed that low budget teams have standard height rims while all other big teams have been using high profile rims. I didn't understand why. It can't be that much expensive. What do you think about it?
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Old 08-22-12, 03:59 AM
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Theres much more room for the sponsors logos on them.

Thats why they're called high profile.
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Old 08-22-12, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by znomit
Theres much more room for the sponsors logos on them.

Thats why they're called high profile.
Good one. I never thought of it that way.
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Old 08-22-12, 04:42 AM
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High profile rims are slightly more aero and so they will make you slightly faster for the same power output.
The difference is very small to the point where you can hardly measure it in real world conditions but need a windtunnel to prove it.
They're also heavier than shallow rims, so they don't always have an advantage over them, depending on the course.
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Old 08-22-12, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by znomit
Theres much more room for the sponsors logos on them.
There is indeed ... but with the spinning it makes it impossible to read during the race.
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Old 08-22-12, 06:59 AM
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Double post.
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Old 08-22-12, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by AdelaaR
They're also heavier than shallow rims, so they don't always have an advantage over them, depending on the course.
This is not always true.

A good set of carbon tubular deep rims will weigh the same or less than a shallow aluminum rim.

Zipp 404 tubular rims weigh about 400 grams at 58mm. Mavic Open Pros (clincher) weigh about 425g while Reflex rims (tubular) weigh about 390g.

If we are comparing deep carbon tubular rims to shallow carbon tubular rims, then yes, the shallow rims are substantially lighter.
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Old 08-22-12, 07:23 AM
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One thing is sure that deep rims look much better than others and i wouldn't mind to lose few more grams for it. The teams with shallow rims in Pro Challenge tour were looking like they were from another era.
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Old 08-22-12, 07:43 AM
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so i was browsing Boyd carbon rims earlier today, the price difference between the shallowest and deepest rim is almost nothing, is there a reason someone who lives in the flats of NE IL or SE WI should get the shallow ones over something deeper? surely there is a "sweet spot" in there somewhere that you get decent aero benefits and still maintain a reasonable weight. (1809g for teh 85mm vs. 1384g for teh 38mm) surely there is a sweet spot in there somewhere.

not that I'm actually in the market for some, just kind of curious for future reference cuz I may go carbon if I do my next bike as a custom build.
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Old 08-22-12, 07:50 AM
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To get the best aero and light wheels you'll need to shelve out somewhere around $2000.
I've got an "old" set of second hand Easton Tempest II's here that weigh 1250grams for 58mm high aero rims
But as I said ... the actual benefit, besides supposedly looking cool, is really small.
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Old 08-22-12, 07:58 AM
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I think Price would be an issue... I've seen some of these wheels go for $12,000 and up...
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Old 08-22-12, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by hillcrawler
I was watching USA Pro Challenge tour and noticed that low budget teams have standard height rims while all other big teams have been using high profile rims. I didn't understand why. It can't be that much expensive. What do you think about it?
How many professional teams have you managed or for that matter, financed?
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Old 08-22-12, 08:39 AM
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Few things:

1. Pros spend a lot of time in aerodynamically significant speeds. Even their climbing speeds can be fast enough to warrant drafting (unlike people like me, where climbing at 6 mph means aero means basically nothing). Pros will regularly climb shorter climbs at 25 mph, and a long climb might be 15-18 mph. A really short climb (1-2 km), at a crucial part of a race, might be closer to 30 mph (I'm thinking the Poggio in Milan San Remo, where guys are going so fast they have to take care in the uphill switchbacks). A slight increase in aero benefits can, over the course of a long race, make a difference.

2. A tall rear wheel helps in high speed descents. It stabilizes the bike. (On the other hand a tall front wheel destabilizes it.) I'll put a taller rear wheel on for a training ride if I figure I'll be going over 45 mph on a descent, especially if the descents are long and on long rides, so that I can relax a bit I do this even if it means adding 250g weight just for the rear wheel.

3. Pros' bikes have to meet a minimum weight (about 15 lbs). If the bike is already light then aero wheels may help the bike meet the weight limit while giving a benefit to the rider (as opposed to steel slugs in the bottom bracket axle which don't do anything to help the rider). Seeing as some of the bikes, stock (i.e. you can go and buy one in a bike shop), weigh around 10-12 lbs, there's a lot of weight to add. Aero wheels, even if they weigh a few hundred grams more, will help make up the extra 2000 grams they might need to add to a "standard" light build of a given frameset.

4. Pros tend to spend a lot of time at a high cruising speed (for you and me - for them it might be "tempo"). Aero wheels help the racer in these steady speeds and additional weight in the rims doesn't really affect the rider/bike unit. You'll see the domestiques, the guys assigned to do the pulling for a long time, outfit their bikes with taller wheels (70-100 mm). You'll see the jumpy climber types using lighter wheels (typically, not always). Sprinters usually use a taller but not the tallest rims, like 60-80 mm, to get aero benefit while (probably) getting a stiffer rim, better handling in dicey situations, and saving a few grams rotating weight.

5. Finally the sponsors like to show off their most expensive wheels Aluminum wheels may work well on a climb but it's much better to highlight a more expensive carbon wheelset. One year, when Campy introduced a new "high end" aluminum wheelset, some teams had their spare bikes outfitted with those wheels (on top of the team cars) while the team rode the Campy's standard carbon wheels. It's marketing among other things.
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Old 08-22-12, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by znomit
Theres much more room for the sponsors logos on them.

Thats why they're called high profile.
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Old 08-22-12, 11:13 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks deep carbon rims are ugly?

30-40mm tops for me
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Old 08-22-12, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bonz50
so i was browsing Boyd carbon rims earlier today, the price difference between the shallowest and deepest rim is almost nothing, is there a reason someone who lives in the flats of NE IL or SE WI should get the shallow ones over something deeper? surely there is a "sweet spot" in there somewhere that you get decent aero benefits and still maintain a reasonable weight. (1809g for teh 85mm vs. 1384g for teh 38mm) surely there is a sweet spot in there somewhere.

not that I'm actually in the market for some, just kind of curious for future reference cuz I may go carbon if I do my next bike as a custom build.
I don't know how true it is, but both Boyd and November claim their 50mm rims are the sweet spot.

Boyd: The 50mm carbon clincher wheelset is one that does everything well. We like to tell people that if you need one wheelset for all your rides, the 50mm is the set for you. It's light enough to be a climbing wheel, aero enough to use in road races and criteriums, and because of it's mid-range depth, the 50mm can even be used in strong crosswinds.

November: There are two ways to answer this question which we get with remarkable frequency: "What's the difference between the RFSC 38s and the RFSC 58s?" One answer is that the 38s help you get up to speed more quickly while the 58s help keep you there longer. The other answer is the RFSC 50s.
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Old 08-22-12, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hillcrawler
One thing is sure that deep rims look much better than others
They "look better" because the norm is shallow rims and the pros run deep rims. If the norm was deep rims and the pros used shallow rims, that's what you'd be lusting after.
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Old 08-22-12, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FPSDavid
I don't know how true it is, but both Boyd and November claim their 50mm rims are the sweet spot.

Boyd: The 50mm carbon clincher wheelset is one that does everything well. We like to tell people that if you need one wheelset for all your rides, the 50mm is the set for you. It's light enough to be a climbing wheel, aero enough to use in road races and criteriums, and because of it's mid-range depth, the 50mm can even be used in strong crosswinds.

November: There are two ways to answer this question which we get with remarkable frequency: "What's the difference between the RFSC 38s and the RFSC 58s?" One answer is that the 38s help you get up to speed more quickly while the 58s help keep you there longer. The other answer is the RFSC 50s.
In my kinda "limited" experience, I agree that 50mm seems to be the sweet spot. I can use my 50mm in almost all conditions, except for the steepest of climbs.
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Old 08-22-12, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
Few things:

1. Pros spend a lot of time in aerodynamically significant speeds. Even their climbing speeds can be fast enough to warrant drafting (unlike people like me, where climbing at 6 mph means aero means basically nothing). Pros will regularly climb shorter climbs at 25 mph, and a long climb might be 15-18 mph. A really short climb (1-2 km), at a crucial part of a race, might be closer to 30 mph (I'm thinking the Poggio in Milan San Remo, where guys are going so fast they have to take care in the uphill switchbacks). A slight increase in aero benefits can, over the course of a long race, make a difference.

2. A tall rear wheel helps in high speed descents. It stabilizes the bike. (On the other hand a tall front wheel destabilizes it.) I'll put a taller rear wheel on for a training ride if I figure I'll be going over 45 mph on a descent, especially if the descents are long and on long rides, so that I can relax a bit I do this even if it means adding 250g weight just for the rear wheel.

3. Pros' bikes have to meet a minimum weight (about 15 lbs). If the bike is already light then aero wheels may help the bike meet the weight limit while giving a benefit to the rider (as opposed to steel slugs in the bottom bracket axle which don't do anything to help the rider). Seeing as some of the bikes, stock (i.e. you can go and buy one in a bike shop), weigh around 10-12 lbs, there's a lot of weight to add. Aero wheels, even if they weigh a few hundred grams more, will help make up the extra 2000 grams they might need to add to a "standard" light build of a given frameset.

4. Pros tend to spend a lot of time at a high cruising speed (for you and me - for them it might be "tempo"). Aero wheels help the racer in these steady speeds and additional weight in the rims doesn't really affect the rider/bike unit. You'll see the domestiques, the guys assigned to do the pulling for a long time, outfit their bikes with taller wheels (70-100 mm). You'll see the jumpy climber types using lighter wheels (typically, not always). Sprinters usually use a taller but not the tallest rims, like 60-80 mm, to get aero benefit while (probably) getting a stiffer rim, better handling in dicey situations, and saving a few grams rotating weight.

5. Finally the sponsors like to show off their most expensive wheels Aluminum wheels may work well on a climb but it's much better to highlight a more expensive carbon wheelset. One year, when Campy introduced a new "high end" aluminum wheelset, some teams had their spare bikes outfitted with those wheels (on top of the team cars) while the team rode the Campy's standard carbon wheels. It's marketing among other things.
CDR is right on here. Listen to this and ignore a lot of the rest.
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Old 08-22-12, 12:46 PM
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I have Mavic carbon 40 wheels and I roll much faster than the guys (same weight of rider) that don't .

My average speed is about 18 so I am not that fast.
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Old 08-22-12, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JustinNY
Am I the only one who thinks deep carbon rims are ugly?

30-40mm tops for me
Apparently you are.
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Old 08-22-12, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AdelaaR
Apparently you are.
Incorrect.

And due the nasty cross-winds I frequently encounter here, I wouldn't even consider them.
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Old 08-23-12, 09:02 PM
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At speeds around 20-25mph, an aero wheel could save 2.2% off your time, that's about 1.5 minutes off each hour, or 0.5mph faster.
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Old 08-23-12, 09:29 PM
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Here's a stupid question - I have two AL wheelsets for my bike - one has a moderately deep section rim, 18 (f) & 20 (r) bladed spokes. The other is a typical 32h Mavis Open Pro set up.

I use two cassettes (with a 53/39 crank) - one has a 12-26, the other a 12-27. I know we're talking minor differences here, but would you put the 27t on the aero wheelset to even things out for climbing or go with the 27 on the Open Pros to have a lighter set for hillier rides?
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Old 08-23-12, 09:39 PM
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We park with the Team vehicles every night, so I see the Vans of all the teams. Pretty sure there are multiple sets of deep sectioned rims in all the team vehicles.

Adn they most all have Wheel sponsors. For example United Health Care is sponsored by Enve.

It's been pretty windy here. A couple of times Tuesday, I felt a tad bit unstable descending on 303's. So it may well a preference thing more than financial thing.

If I have time tomorrow I'll get some pics.
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