Toe clips or Power Grips?
08-24-12, 06:55 AM
#1
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Toe clips or Power Grips?
Got my new bike (Specialized Allez Elite) last Sunday; I will post pic of me grinning ear to ear separately. For the past 20 years or so I've been on my Giant hybrid.
I am not mentally ready to commit to clipless; although I like the concept [i.e., making it easier to go a bit faster], frankly they scare me. I have never been agile, and don't know if I'd ever get the knack of unclipping quickly in event I needed to.
I want some time to acclimate to my road bike, but also though good ol' fashioned toe clips or those Power Grips strap would be a good mid-way step before going clipless.
Any thoughts/comments?
I am not mentally ready to commit to clipless; although I like the concept [i.e., making it easier to go a bit faster], frankly they scare me. I have never been agile, and don't know if I'd ever get the knack of unclipping quickly in event I needed to.
I want some time to acclimate to my road bike, but also though good ol' fashioned toe clips or those Power Grips strap would be a good mid-way step before going clipless.
Any thoughts/comments?
08-24-12, 07:20 AM
#2
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Clipless are much easier to get out of than clips and straps I'm my opinion, just twist your foot. My first roady came with clip pedals. If I wasn't fighting to pull out of them, I was fighting to get the strap side up to get into them. I eventually replaced them with a set of spd/platform combo pedals which I found much easier to live with. I'm now on spd-sl and find them even easier to get into and out of.
08-24-12, 08:06 AM
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Clipless are much easier to get out of than clips and straps I'm my opinion, just twist your foot. My first roady came with clip pedals. If I wasn't fighting to pull out of them, I was fighting to get the strap side up to get into them. I eventually replaced them with a set of spd/platform combo pedals which I found much easier to live with. I'm now on spd-sl and find them even easier to get into and out of.
08-24-12, 08:10 AM
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Toe clips and straps are more difficult to get in and out of than clipless pedals, and are less comfortable.
Get some quality clipless pedals- cheap ones don't clip in or out as well- and practice while propped up in a doorway.
Get some quality clipless pedals- cheap ones don't clip in or out as well- and practice while propped up in a doorway.
08-24-12, 08:16 AM
#5
The Left Coast, USA
As I've posted before, I went from clipless to straps and cages. Besides disliking clipless shoes, the whole clipless system gave me hot spots on my feet, knee isues, and made it impossible to adjust my foot position on long rides. Each to their own, but if I was forced to use clipless I would probably stop riding.
In clipless defense I will say the getting in and out is a non-issue. It becomes a matter of muscle memory very quickly.
Cages and straps are fine, but the cages tear up your shoes over time. Powergrips are a real nice set-up, but if you wear different footwear on the same bike you need to adjust them each time, with tools. Some days I wear minimalist driving shoes, sometimes flat soled tennis shoes, sometimes sandals, sometimes shoes with tread or running shoes. So, Powergrips require a little tweaking shoe to shoe. Currently I'm testing fixie straps, the ones sold at Retrogression - they adjust on the go, without tools. Straps are getting popular, there are a half dozen prime choices but many are chronically sold out.
Find what works for you. I ride full carbon road, mountain bikes, FG/SS, and vintage bikes wearing straps...it all works great - don't let anyone tell you you must go with clipless.
In clipless defense I will say the getting in and out is a non-issue. It becomes a matter of muscle memory very quickly.
Cages and straps are fine, but the cages tear up your shoes over time. Powergrips are a real nice set-up, but if you wear different footwear on the same bike you need to adjust them each time, with tools. Some days I wear minimalist driving shoes, sometimes flat soled tennis shoes, sometimes sandals, sometimes shoes with tread or running shoes. So, Powergrips require a little tweaking shoe to shoe. Currently I'm testing fixie straps, the ones sold at Retrogression - they adjust on the go, without tools. Straps are getting popular, there are a half dozen prime choices but many are chronically sold out.
Find what works for you. I ride full carbon road, mountain bikes, FG/SS, and vintage bikes wearing straps...it all works great - don't let anyone tell you you must go with clipless.
Last edited by FrenchFit; 08-24-12 at 08:41 AM.
08-24-12, 08:19 AM
#6
Senior Member
Get some clipless pedals. In a week you will wonder why you ever considered anything else.
I use Power Grips on my commuter, but that's only to not limit my shoe choices. I also don't ever ride it more than 10 miles. Like others have said, getting out of a clipless pedal is faster (in my case SPD-SL).
I use Power Grips on my commuter, but that's only to not limit my shoe choices. I also don't ever ride it more than 10 miles. Like others have said, getting out of a clipless pedal is faster (in my case SPD-SL).
08-24-12, 09:37 AM
#7
Professional Fuss-Budget
I haven't used them, but my understanding Powergrips work fairly well, they'll secure your feet with less risk of getting stuck in an accident.
I'm moderately skeptical of the utility of clipless for most riders. Everyone says they improve your performance... and to me, that alone is cause for suspicion.
More pertinently, I haven't seen any data which backs it up. In fact, the data that's out there suggests that it might not actually improve performance much at all.
The common and oft-heard claim is that "it lets you apply power on the upstroke." However, this is completely incorrect. Using pedal-based power meters, top cycling docs like Andy Pruitt have observed that even the most powerful cyclists do not, in fact, do this. All you're doing is lifting your leg. (See https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...yclists_137556 )
As such, each leg is not providing a consistent level of power at each point in the stroke. Instead, it works like a two-stroke engine. You may notice this when you are climbing a steep hill, and each pedal thrust lurches you forward. You keep moving because of your momentum.
And keep in mind that your leg is neither weightless, nor is it designed to lift objects. Each leg is roughly 10% of your body weight, and your leg is designed to push down -- e.g. for jumping and squatting.
It's entirely possible I'm missing a benefit, since Pruitt et al still recommend clipless. However, my suspicion is that many riders would do just fine with platforms.
I'm moderately skeptical of the utility of clipless for most riders. Everyone says they improve your performance... and to me, that alone is cause for suspicion.
More pertinently, I haven't seen any data which backs it up. In fact, the data that's out there suggests that it might not actually improve performance much at all.
The common and oft-heard claim is that "it lets you apply power on the upstroke." However, this is completely incorrect. Using pedal-based power meters, top cycling docs like Andy Pruitt have observed that even the most powerful cyclists do not, in fact, do this. All you're doing is lifting your leg. (See https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...yclists_137556 )
As such, each leg is not providing a consistent level of power at each point in the stroke. Instead, it works like a two-stroke engine. You may notice this when you are climbing a steep hill, and each pedal thrust lurches you forward. You keep moving because of your momentum.
And keep in mind that your leg is neither weightless, nor is it designed to lift objects. Each leg is roughly 10% of your body weight, and your leg is designed to push down -- e.g. for jumping and squatting.
It's entirely possible I'm missing a benefit, since Pruitt et al still recommend clipless. However, my suspicion is that many riders would do just fine with platforms.
08-24-12, 10:56 AM
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simple solution... SPD pedals, attach cleats to the bottom of sandals. you get the benefits of clipless while still being able to get your foot down quickly.
08-24-12, 11:02 AM
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The biggest benefit is being locked into a stable position on the pedals, IMO. If riding over rough stuff, wet weather or other similar conditions, it is nice not to have your foot slip off the pedals at the wrong time.
08-24-12, 12:08 PM
#12
Senior Member
Toe clips are awful. For a road bike, clipless is your best bet. I run clipless on my road bike, and powergrips on my cross commuter. But I don't really think the pedals matter that much personally. I have centuries on platforms with ease.
08-24-12, 12:23 PM
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20+ years on your hybrid on regular platform pedals is a long time. Why change now? Just stick with what you know be secure in that knowledge!
08-24-12, 01:16 PM
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I haven't used them, but my understanding Powergrips work fairly well, they'll secure your feet with less risk of getting stuck in an accident.
I'm moderately skeptical of the utility of clipless for most riders. Everyone says they improve your performance... and to me, that alone is cause for suspicion.
More pertinently, I haven't seen any data which backs it up. In fact, the data that's out there suggests that it might not actually improve performance much at all.
The common and oft-heard claim is that "it lets you apply power on the upstroke." However, this is completely incorrect. Using pedal-based power meters, top cycling docs like Andy Pruitt have observed that even the most powerful cyclists do not, in fact, do this. All you're doing is lifting your leg. (See https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...yclists_137556 )
As such, each leg is not providing a consistent level of power at each point in the stroke. Instead, it works like a two-stroke engine. You may notice this when you are climbing a steep hill, and each pedal thrust lurches you forward. You keep moving because of your momentum.
And keep in mind that your leg is neither weightless, nor is it designed to lift objects. Each leg is roughly 10% of your body weight, and your leg is designed to push down -- e.g. for jumping and squatting.
It's entirely possible I'm missing a benefit, since Pruitt et al still recommend clipless. However, my suspicion is that many riders would do just fine with platforms.
I'm moderately skeptical of the utility of clipless for most riders. Everyone says they improve your performance... and to me, that alone is cause for suspicion.
More pertinently, I haven't seen any data which backs it up. In fact, the data that's out there suggests that it might not actually improve performance much at all.
The common and oft-heard claim is that "it lets you apply power on the upstroke." However, this is completely incorrect. Using pedal-based power meters, top cycling docs like Andy Pruitt have observed that even the most powerful cyclists do not, in fact, do this. All you're doing is lifting your leg. (See https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...yclists_137556 )
As such, each leg is not providing a consistent level of power at each point in the stroke. Instead, it works like a two-stroke engine. You may notice this when you are climbing a steep hill, and each pedal thrust lurches you forward. You keep moving because of your momentum.
And keep in mind that your leg is neither weightless, nor is it designed to lift objects. Each leg is roughly 10% of your body weight, and your leg is designed to push down -- e.g. for jumping and squatting.
It's entirely possible I'm missing a benefit, since Pruitt et al still recommend clipless. However, my suspicion is that many riders would do just fine with platforms.
Makes sense untill you try some one leg drills.
If I find I'm wearing out while spinning up a climb I'll slow down and concentrate on the pull instead of the push in my stroke to give myself a break.
08-24-12, 01:17 PM
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If you don't want clipless, look into this combo. I ride it and love it.
https://www.blaqdesign.com/Pages/Prod...?&itemId=10026
https://www.chromebagsstore.com/shoes/tobruk.html
https://www.blaqdesign.com/Pages/Prod...?&itemId=10026
https://www.chromebagsstore.com/shoes/tobruk.html
08-24-12, 01:27 PM
#16
Professional Fuss-Budget
"...force-measuring pedals show us that no cyclists, not even track pursuiters who are capable of silky-smooth pedal strokes at 130 rpm, really exert upward force when the pedal is coming up from dead bottom center."
Maybe clipping in helps improve your pedal stroke, but that doesn't prove that "you can't improve your pedal stroke unless you have clipless pedals." I.e. if you like the feel of clipless that's great, but again the performance benefits are unclear, and none of the power on the upstroke makes it to the drivetrain.
08-24-12, 02:36 PM
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It isn't so much about pulling up as not having to push down. Try pedaling at high cadence without anything keeping your feet on the pedals. If you can do it, you're probably exerting a significant downward force on the upstroke.
08-24-12, 02:44 PM
#18
The Left Coast, USA
That's nice, but that doesn't change much. To quote Pruitt, who among other things does fitting for Saxo Bank....
"...force-measuring pedals show us that no cyclists, not even track pursuiters who are capable of silky-smooth pedal strokes at 130 rpm, really exert upward force when the pedal is coming up from dead bottom center."
Maybe clipping in helps improve your pedal stroke, but that doesn't prove that "you can't improve your pedal stroke unless you have clipless pedals." I.e. if you like the feel of clipless that's great, but again the performance benefits are unclear, and none of the power on the upstroke makes it to the drivetrain.
08-24-12, 04:40 PM
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If you really think you can't apply power on the upstroke you've either never used clipless pedals or you have no hamstrings.
08-24-12, 04:45 PM
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08-24-12, 05:21 PM
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You mean this part? Where it says exactly that?
The common and oft-heard claim is that "it lets you apply power on the upstroke." However, this is completely incorrect. Using pedal-based power meters, top cycling docs like Andy Pruitt have observed that even the most powerful cyclists do not, in fact, do this. All you're doing is lifting your leg.
08-24-12, 06:33 PM
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It'd be nice if in threads like this, people answered the question at hand, rather than a 20+ post debate on clipless.
I was going to go clipless this year, but I'm postponing as well. I just had knee surgery, and I have a messed up shoulder. I can't risk any preventable falls right now. So I'm interested in the solutions some of you may have as well.
I was going to go clipless this year, but I'm postponing as well. I just had knee surgery, and I have a messed up shoulder. I can't risk any preventable falls right now. So I'm interested in the solutions some of you may have as well.
08-24-12, 06:44 PM
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Comprehension fail!
"It let's you apply power on the upstroke" followed by "observed that even the most powerful cyclists DO NOT, in fact do this" The words "do not" is not the same as "can not" or in your on words "CAN'T". It does not really "says exactly that" does it?
Try again!
"It let's you apply power on the upstroke" followed by "observed that even the most powerful cyclists DO NOT, in fact do this" The words "do not" is not the same as "can not" or in your on words "CAN'T". It does not really "says exactly that" does it?
Try again!
08-24-12, 06:45 PM
#24
Professional Fuss-Budget
So to clarify:
Powergrips apparently work fine.
You can ride just fine with plain ol' platforms.
Originally Posted by enroper
I was going to go clipless this year, but I'm postponing as well. I just had knee surgery, and I have a messed up shoulder. I can't risk any preventable falls right now. So I'm interested in the solutions some of you may have as well.
Stick with platforms, without clips. Get stiff shoes. You can use cycling shoes without the clips, and switch to clipless pedals when you're ready.
If you absolutely must connect your foot to the pedal right now, use Powergrips (and stiff shoes). They work fine, and are safer than clips.
Happy now?
08-24-12, 08:50 PM
#25
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Bacciagalupe gives terrible advice. I mean just cause someone wants you to confirm their prejudices doesn't mean it is actually helpful to do so...