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Sneaky drafters...Argh!

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Sneaky drafters...Argh!

Old 08-24-12, 11:08 AM
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HKS
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Sneaky drafters...Argh!

Well, today I was off on a brief 30km ride to get back into the commuting mood for school starting again in September. So, it's a nice day, about 24 celsius, breezy and very pleasant along the river MUP. Halfway through the so-far-uneventful ride, I turn around to go back home along the same path, and I immediately come upon a red light at an intersection. As I'm waiting for the light to change, an old gentleman (I'd say somewhere in his 60s) on a road bike pulls up in front of me. We're both decked out in cycling wear and I'll admit, I did smirk when he moved in front of me (I'm just too used to seeing old guys with expensive kit who go 13mph in my city...).

The light turns green and, to my great surprise, this guy shoots off at a respectable clip. I jump on my bike and follow him down the path. We're going pretty much at the same speed, which is 18-20mph, and I'm maintaining a 6-7 metre following distance behind him. After a few minutes, he slows down slightly, and since I figure he's getting p-o'ed by some kid following him, I make my move and sprint past him after ringing my bell and I maintain a very fast pace for 100 metres or so. Ok, so now I figure that's all done with, and I continue down the path back at my normal 18-20mph speed for about 8 kilometres. At that time, I hear a strange buzzing noise from behind me... I glance back to check my cassette, but, just like in those cheap horror movies when a monster jumps out of the closet, I suddenly see the old guy drafting me with only a ~1 metre distance from my back wheel, making no effort to let me know he was there! I'm shocked to be drafted (never happened before, and I don't have any mirrors), and as soon as I recover, the guy sprints past me for 10 metres or so, and then signals a left turn and veers off the MUP.

Look, I respect this guy's fitness, and I hope I'm able to maintain his level of strength when I am that age, but I think chasing me for 8 kilometres, then drafting me for a little ego boost was very childish and quite dangerous. I suppose I'm surprised mainly because the vast majority of cyclists in my city are extremely respectful and courteous.

I could see this as some kind of age-related contest, as he felt he needed to prove himself as a faster cyclist to a young whippersnapper like me (I hope that's not rude...), and I can see the possibility that he thought my sprinting past him was some sort of biker-duel, challenge-type thing, which it was not. The fact of the matter is, I simply could not pass him without sprinting due to our comparable speeds.

At the end of the day, though, I suppose you just have to laugh, sometimes. If anyone has any opinions on my actions or his actions, or similar stories, I'd love to hear them. On the off chance that this guy's a member of BF, I apologize if you took my actions as demeaning or threatening, although I would discourage you from drafting unsuspecting victims in the future. (I'd also like to apologize to all you readers for the mix of metric and imperial units in this post. We do that in Canada.)
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Old 08-24-12, 11:29 AM
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Welcome to the MUP commuters racing league!

Next time droppe the hamer on that doode and ride hym off your wheel...
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Old 08-24-12, 11:33 AM
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Yay! More MUP racing!
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Old 08-24-12, 11:36 AM
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Seems like you took it in good stride... I can tell you that I wouldn't have. :-) Extremely unsafe to jump on a wheel like that when you are just riding round. I can only imagine what would have happened if you would have slowed hard suddenly and he took you both out if you didn't know he was there.

I make sure that if I pass someone on a bike trail that I maintain speed for awhile to get a nice gap. I can't stand the leap frog game and just because we are out cycling doesn't make us training buddies if we end up close to each other. :-)
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Old 08-24-12, 11:36 AM
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Troll.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:36 AM
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Didn't you pass him first?
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Old 08-24-12, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperGregNo1 View Post
Didn't you pass him first?
OP passed him after he slowed down. Not sure what your point is.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:42 AM
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don't be mad b/c a 60 year old man beat you in a race to the 7-eleven
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Old 08-24-12, 11:44 AM
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That's not jumping a wheel. They've were both aware of each other. He took a pull, than it was your turn. I just wanna know of you dialed it up to 400w to make the pass?Have some situational awareness and enjoy the cooperative aspect of riding. Or don't ride amongst the unwashed masses.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HKS View Post
I could see this as some kind of age-related contest, as he felt he needed to prove himself as a faster cyclist to a young whippersnapper like me (I hope that's not rude...), and I can see the possibility that he thought my sprinting past him was some sort of biker-duel, challenge-type thing, which it was not. The fact of the matter is, I simply could not pass him without sprinting due to our comparable speeds.
Well, he is a faster cyclist than you. He won the MUP race, the one you started, with the sneaky "pass the guy and turn left" maneuver.

Better luck next time.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by HKS View Post
Well, today I was off on a brief 30km ride to get back into the commuting mood for school starting again in September. So, it's a nice day, about 24 celsius, breezy and very pleasant along the river MUP. Halfway through the so-far-uneventful ride, I turn around to go back home along the same path, and I immediately come upon a red light at an intersection. As I'm waiting for the light to change, an old gentleman (I'd say somewhere in his 60s) on a road bike pulls up in front of me. We're both decked out in cycling wear and I'll admit, I did smirk when he moved in front of me (I'm just too used to seeing old guys with expensive kit who go 13mph in my city...).

The light turns green and, to my great surprise, this guy shoots off at a respectable clip. I jump on my bike and follow him down the path. We're going pretty much at the same speed, which is 18-20mph, and I'm maintaining a 6-7 metre following distance behind him. After a few minutes, he slows down slightly, and since I figure he's getting p-o'ed by some kid following him, I make my move and sprint past him after ringing my bell and I maintain a very fast pace for 100 metres or so. Ok, so now I figure that's all done with, and I continue down the path back at my normal 18-20mph speed for about 8 kilometres. At that time, I hear a strange buzzing noise from behind me... I glance back to check my cassette, but, just like in those cheap horror movies when a monster jumps out of the closet, I suddenly see the old guy drafting me with only a ~1 metre distance from my back wheel, making no effort to let me know he was there! I'm shocked to be drafted (never happened before, and I don't have any mirrors), and as soon as I recover, the guy sprints past me for 10 metres or so, and then signals a left turn and veers off the MUP.

Look, I respect this guy's fitness, and I hope I'm able to maintain his level of strength when I am that age, but I think chasing me for 8 kilometres, then drafting me for a little ego boost was very childish and quite dangerous. I suppose I'm surprised mainly because the vast majority of cyclists in my city are extremely respectful and courteous.

I could see this as some kind of age-related contest, as he felt he needed to prove himself as a faster cyclist to a young whippersnapper like me (I hope that's not rude...), and I can see the possibility that he thought my sprinting past him was some sort of biker-duel, challenge-type thing, which it was not. The fact of the matter is, I simply could not pass him without sprinting due to our comparable speeds.

At the end of the day, though, I suppose you just have to laugh, sometimes. If anyone has any opinions on my actions or his actions, or similar stories, I'd love to hear them. On the off chance that this guy's a member of BF, I apologize if you took my actions as demeaning or threatening, although I would discourage you from drafting unsuspecting victims in the future. (I'd also like to apologize to all you readers for the mix of metric and imperial units in this post. We do that in Canada.)
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Old 08-24-12, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HKS View Post
After a few minutes, he slows down slightly, and since I figure he's getting p-o'ed by some kid following him, I make my move and sprint past him after ringing my bell and I maintain a very fast pace for 100 metres or so. Ok, so now I figure that's all done with, and I continue down the path back at my normal 18-20mph speed for about 8 kilometres.
I hate it when people do that... pass in a flurry and then slow back down to their original speed allowing me to catch up at my speed. If you're going faster than I am, pass me and keep going. But to pass me & then slow down begs me to jump on your wheel & then do the same. It's equally annoying in a car when another car passes you & then brakes.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:49 AM
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You are right to be annoyed by this, first for the weird desire that some cyclists seem to have to "compete" with strangers out on their bike. I find it both amusing and annoying when I am cruising along on some easy ride, say maybe 16-20mph depending on my fatigue, the terrain and wind, and some guy passes me huffing and puffing, get maybe 100ft ahead, then slows down... at which point I continue steadily riding at my pace, pass him, and the whole cycle begins again. It's fredly, but at the end of the day, not the worst offense.

Second and more importantly, a cyclist should never sneak into the draft of another cyclist. It's lame, bad form, and potentially dangerous. We have a lot of cyclist of varying abilities in SoCal, and I have this happen every so often while on a mellow, solo recovery ride. It's a real pet peeve of mine and I think it should be added as one of The Rules https://www.velominati.com/the-rules/.

When I am on a group ride, I know there will be riders around me, I know I need to hold my line, I know I won't slow or sit up when I have someone right on my wheel, in short, I ride with the knowledge that there is or can be someone right on my wheel at any moment. On a solo ride, I am riding under a different set of rules - see that road debris at the last minute? no problem with a little swerve around it. Want to take advantage of some smoother pavement 2 feet over from my line? No problem, let me slide on over. Want to sit up and stretch or remove the armwarmers? Got for it. Hell, want to see how my new carbon wheels modulate under some braking? Do it. (OK this one I would look behind me regardless, just because you never know who might have snuck up on you). My point is, as a solo cyclist, your "contract with the road" is different than on group rides (I am talking about relatively subtle stuff, not swerving all over the road like an idiot) and that sneaky drafter is essentially breaking that contract and putting you in a group ride/paceline situation without you knowing it. If they overlap my wheel and I move my line, if I have to break and they crash into me - those are things that I did not sign up for when I went out on my solo ride.

On the rare occasions when I turn around and see one of these sneaky drafters sitting in behind me, I maintain speed, but then sit up, tell them in no uncertain terms that they should never, ever silently and unannounced sneak up on another cyclist's wheel, and I then proceed to coast until they are forced to come around. I then let them get some distance and hope they won't go so slow that I will be forced to catch them.

By the way, if that same cyclist wants to sit on my wheel, the proper approach is to make yourself known, whether with a simple "good morning," or "hi there" and then proceed to ask "mind if we work together?" or even better "mind if I take a pull for a bit or are you looking to ride solo today?"
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Old 08-24-12, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
I hate it when people do that... pass in a flurry and then slow back down to their original speed allowing me to catch up at my speed. If you're going faster than I am, pass me and keep going. But to pass me & then slow down begs me to jump on your wheel & then do the same. It's equally annoying in a car when another car passes you & then brakes.
well you would hate me. I go anywhere from about 30 to 17mph when doing intervals.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:52 AM
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Old 08-24-12, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Elduderino2412 View Post
well you would hate me. I go anywhere from about 30 to 17mph when doing intervals.
Nah, there are always exceptions. It's not hard to tell when someone is doing intervals, just by watching their progress. But even if I didn't notice that, I don't see the issue of overtaking you in the end if you're dogging it & I've still got gas in the tank. I wouldn't be the guy sitting on your wheel without your knowledge, I'd just try & slam by you before my turnoff. It's all good. Usually people complain about others being in a race of One and treating unaware riders as competitors... I figure if you pass me and slow down, you should be aware that I'm there and be ready to be passed yourself when I recover & catch up to you.
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Old 08-24-12, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
That's not jumping a wheel. They've were both aware of each other. He took a pull, than it was your turn. I just wanna know of you dialed it up to 400w to make the pass?Have some situational awareness and enjoy the cooperative aspect of riding. Or don't ride amongst the unwashed masses.
I don't know what post you were reading, but I don't see how you can say that the other rider "took a pull" - taking a pull is something that two riders who choose to ride together do. This dude passed the OP, he did not "take a pull." Then the OP followed (at a distance!) at a consistent pace, which the other rider could not or did not maintain. So the OP passes him so that he can maintain his pace, and this time, does so the right way (ie briskly and with purpose) so as to establish a nice, safe gap from the other rider. At which time the other rider decides to speed up yet again and this time sit silently on the OP's wheel.

You can't force the OP to enjoy the "cooperative aspect of riding" when he doesn't get the opportunity to choose to cooperate or choose his partner (and let's face it, the kind of cyclist who is likely to pull this move is not likely to be the most skilled or experienced cyclist/bike handler - this is not something a Cat3 or even experienced rec cyclist would do).

I would venture to say that many women enjoy the "cooperative aspect" of sexual activity, but they also prefer to be able to choose when and with whom they will engage in such cooperative activity.

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Old 08-24-12, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
Nah, there are always exceptions. It's not hard to tell when someone is doing intervals, just by watching their progress. But even if I didn't notice that, I don't see the issue of overtaking you in the end if you're dogging it & I've still got gas in the tank. I wouldn't be the guy sitting on your wheel without your knowledge, I'd just try & slam by you before my turnoff. It's all good. Usually people complain about others being in a race of One and treating unaware riders as competitors... I figure if you pass me and slow down, you should be aware that I'm there and be ready to be passed yourself when I recover & catch up to you.
that i understand
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Old 08-24-12, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HKS View Post
Well, today I was off on a brief 30km ride to get back into the commuting mood for school starting again in September. So, it's a nice day, about 24 celsius, breezy and very pleasant along the river MUP. Halfway through the so-far-uneventful ride, I turn around to go back home along the same path, and I immediately come upon a red light at an intersection. As I'm waiting for the light to change, an old gentleman (I'd say somewhere in his 60s) on a road bike pulls up in front of me. We're both decked out in cycling wear and I'll admit, I did smirk when he moved in front of me (I'm just too used to seeing old guys with expensive kit who go 13mph in my city...).

The light turns green and, to my great surprise, this guy shoots off at a respectable clip. I jump on my bike and follow him down the path. We're going pretty much at the same speed, which is 18-20mph, and I'm maintaining a 6-7 metre following distance behind him. After a few minutes, he slows down slightly, and since I figure he's getting p-o'ed by some kid following him, I make my move and sprint past him after ringing my bell and I maintain a very fast pace for 100 metres or so. Ok, so now I figure that's all done with, and I continue down the path back at my normal 18-20mph speed for about 8 kilometres. At that time, I hear a strange buzzing noise from behind me... I glance back to check my cassette, but, just like in those cheap horror movies when a monster jumps out of the closet, I suddenly see the old guy drafting me with only a ~1 metre distance from my back wheel, making no effort to let me know he was there! I'm shocked to be drafted (never happened before, and I don't have any mirrors), and as soon as I recover, the guy sprints past me for 10 metres or so, and then signals a left turn and veers off the MUP.

Look, I respect this guy's fitness, and I hope I'm able to maintain his level of strength when I am that age, but I think chasing me for 8 kilometres, then drafting me for a little ego boost was very childish and quite dangerous. I suppose I'm surprised mainly because the vast majority of cyclists in my city are extremely respectful and courteous.

I could see this as some kind of age-related contest, as he felt he needed to prove himself as a faster cyclist to a young whippersnapper like me (I hope that's not rude...), and I can see the possibility that he thought my sprinting past him was some sort of biker-duel, challenge-type thing, which it was not. The fact of the matter is, I simply could not pass him without sprinting due to our comparable speeds.

At the end of the day, though, I suppose you just have to laugh, sometimes. If anyone has any opinions on my actions or his actions, or similar stories, I'd love to hear them. On the off chance that this guy's a member of BF, I apologize if you took my actions as demeaning or threatening, although I would discourage you from drafting unsuspecting victims in the future. (I'd also like to apologize to all you readers for the mix of metric and imperial units in this post. We do that in Canada.)
Just shut up and ride your bike.
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Old 08-24-12, 12:02 PM
  #20  
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A friend of mine drafted me pretty closely when we were about ten years old going down a street with a paved shoulder and lots of gravel sitting on the pavement. He got too close, clipped my wheel, and then took a nice dive over his handlebars, getting little bits of gravel embedded in his hands.

That cured me of any desire to draft anyone. I generally give people a lot of space. Even though I know what I am doing I have no idea what they are doing.


When someone is following me too close I slow down a little and move to the right if possible. They get the hint. I don't want some insecure fool to take me down.
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Old 08-24-12, 12:07 PM
  #21  
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I frequently fire aft-torpedos (snot-rockets, and booger-chaff) without warning. If any draft-ninjas are back there, it's their problem.
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Old 08-24-12, 12:08 PM
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It's the silly little competitive things we do on our bikes that make no difference to anyone - other than our bruised egos comparing ourselves to a fictitious mental standard.
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Old 08-24-12, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Essex View Post
It's the silly little competitive things we do on our bikes that make no difference to anyone - other than our bruised egos comparing ourselves to a fictitious mental standard.
Yup! Somehow, the size and function of my male member does not change no matter how many encounters I have like this.
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Old 08-24-12, 12:18 PM
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Hmm... There seems to be some very differing opinions here concerning drafting. I am not a group rider, and therefore am not used to drafting at all, and it just took me by surprise.Thanks for all the respectful answers and the lovely cat picture. And bra picture. Of course, it's not a big deal, but there was the potential for injury, which was what irked me. I will from now on try to be more aware of people approaching from behind, but for those of you who think I began this "race," I'm not going to sit 6 metres behind a guy for my entire ride. I think it annoyed him as well as me.

And if you feel you wasted your time reading this thread, I would return that minute to you, but that isn't within my powers...yet.

Cheers, guys.
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Old 08-24-12, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by refthimos View Post
Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
Have some situational awareness and enjoy the cooperative aspect of riding. Or don't ride amongst the unwashed masses.
I would venture to say that many women enjoy the "cooperative aspect" of sexual activity, but they also prefer to be able to choose when and with whom they will engage in such cooperative activity.
^BF analogy of the year winner right there!!! No further submissions are currently being accepted...
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