Fleabiscuit

Great thread, guys. This is why I like BF.

DannoXYZ 

Oh, and coffee really helps. It actually doesn't physiologically make you faster, but it's a mental stimulant that masks the pain signals. This allows you to push yourself to that 100% max-HR, max lactic-acid muscle-lockup limit. Most people don't have the stamina to push themselves that hard when doing intervals (maybe 85-90%). Caffeine is the legal drug that really helps you push that last bit.

And of course the usual training-regimen applies. Lots of warm-up, and stretching. Do your post-ride replenishment drink immediately and more stretching. Massage and a couple of ibuprofens helps with DOMS, fast recovery and muscle-rebuilding. Then you can get up the next day, fully rested and ready to do another workout! Good luck!

jtrem14

I have a question:

As with most other types of muscle building workouts, should I expect a plateau? I've been riding for years, but never really got into any significant training until this summer. Over the last 10 weeks or so I've gotten into a pretty good training regime where I've been riding about 5 days per week; 1 Long (40-50 miles) on Saturday mornings at about 19 mph; 2 Medium distance average pace rides of about 20-25 miles at around 20 mph; and 2 days where I spend time doing interval training which I've varied up based on the links in the "bikeforums.net workout recipe book". I should say that I also run, though I'm phasing that out as I get more into cycling. I have a half marathon and a Tri coming up in October, so I've been mixing in about 20-25 miles worth of running per week. Like my cycling, it's one long run on Sundays, a speed work day and a couple tempo runs during the week.

I've noticed in the two weeks or so that I haven't seen much performance gain. I don't really feel fatigued pre-in-post riding, but my threshold seems to be about the same. All the while I have seen significant gains in my running performance.

Is it possible that I am plateauing a bit with my cycling training? Is that even a real thing? Am a getting fatigued? Is the running counterproductive? I'm not overly concerned as I've seen fairly significant improvements over the entire summer, so maybe my expectations have just been raised a bit too high. I'm just wondering if there is such a thing as plateauing, and if there is anything I can possibly do to overcome it. I like going faster

EDIT: Also, I do drink coffee before almost every ride. I eat oatmeal in the mornings about 2 hours before my rides. I bring about 400-500 calories worth of stuff (either fruit or energy packets) during long rides, and a packet or two during my medium length rides. I also use Hammer Gel before and during rides. Flax + Carb and Protein recover drinks after. I feel as though my nutrition has been well kept, but maybe that could use some tweeking as well. Any suggestions are welcome...

StanSeven

Here's a Chris Carmichael plan I use that's really effective increasing long distance speed:

Do a 10 minute close to all out effort. Rest ten minutes by going very easy. Do a second ten minute hard effort. Record your averaage HR. That's your goal.

Twice a week do the following - Go ten minutes at target HR, ten minutes recovery, ten hard, ten easy and ten hard. Next week do the same except eight minutes recovery between three hard ten minute efforts. The following week the same except six minutes recovery. Then four and finally two minutes. The next week start all over except for fifteen minutes hard with ten easy. And so one until you do the entire 45 minutes without a braek

colombo357

That sounds very difficult.

Is there an easier way to accomplish the same goal? Some type of surgery maybe?

Nick Bain

That's what she said!

rekmeyata

This is why I put espresso into a GU flask on long rides, I then sip on it every time I take a drink. And espresso is far cheaper then GU or other such crap from LBS's. You can also take regular coffee and buy Stok caffeine in the little tubs and pour it into the coffee. I know a guy who puts the Stok into his sport drink when he rides.

And as far as Chris Carmichael's training program goes, it isn't complete without EPO he uses in his program.

D1G1N1XY

Wow, this is totally me. I have been doing all wrong. That's the reason I keep lurking here in these forums. Education. I know where I need to correct now. Thank you

rekmeyata

What Danno said is correct. Even century training schedules today usually have Wednesday as a day off. When I use to race we still rode on Wednesday but it was our fun or relax day, meaning a very easy pace for no more then 10 miles. But that was about 30 years ago and I'm not sure what's changed over the eons in racing training.

DannoXYZ 

Plateaus have many causes and it's hard to diagnose without having more data. You'll want to example a previous year's worth of data to find trends. In a highly-optimized plan, there are macro-cycles of 4-6 weeks with a rest-week or two in between. Each macro-cycle has a focus, such as endurance, hill-climbing, speed, power, TT, etc. Each week in that macro-cycle is a micro-cycle with specific daily routines.

What I like to do is record a sum-total of intensity X mileage. Kinda like weight-lifting where you record #of reps X sets X weight to find a total weight-lifted number. This total gives you a number that can be used to compare one week with another or one macro-cycle with another. It's similar to integrating the area under a graph in calculus. A trend may appear when you've tracked this data over a long period of time. It should go up and down with a certain average trend-line. Too many weeks above the average-trend and you are probably overtrained with insufficient rest.

Also track your waking heart-rate daily. It can point to overtraining the cardio system. That recovers faster than the muscular system, so you have to strike a balance.

It does sound like you might be overtrained with both the running & cycling combined. If you are really doing longest rides of 40-50miles @ 19mph for 2:06 to 2:38 times, then you're definitely caught in the medium no-mans-land of training. Would be better to make that a real endurance ride of 60-70mile LSD ride (steady pace the entire time). Then cut out one of the medium-paced rides and do one of 25-40miles. Then cut out one of the interval days. Turn it into a sprints-only day (5-8, or even 10 if you can handle it, groups are good to get leadout for starting a sprint at +30mph). This gives you more endurance-miles, more intensity and one more rest day than you have now. Two weeks of this along with an easy rest-week and you'll find that your TT speed will be the highest ever! Good luck!

triumph.1

I love people who know it all.

rekmeyata

So go out and spend a hundred dollars a month on Bike Boutique drinks and energy stuff for someone who doesn't race. That makes real good sense.

All the OP needs to do is make sure he's eating right, get plenty of rest, ride a training schedule if he wants to do better, and not subscribe to doing expensive bike boutique nutritional supplements and drinks when commonly found far lower costing stuff is available that works just fine when a person is not into racing.

And most of that high energy packet stuff at LBS's contain caffeine, so why pay a bunch of money for something you can get a lot cheaper and it's in a natural form instead of a mix of who knows what?

That's all I was advising.

jtrem14

Thanks for all the advice. I did have a typo however haha. the 40-50 miles rides I usually do on weekends have been in the 17mph range. I wish they could be in 19 haha.

Anyways, I'm going to try exactly what you said and hopefully I'll remember this thread and report back. I actually thought about setting out to do a metric century this past weekend, but sprained my thumb at a show on Friday night, and definitely wasn't going to last that long on top of it.

I honestly can't wait until I don't "have to" run anymore Thanks again.