Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Steel frame questions

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Steel frame questions

Old 09-09-12, 01:02 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2013 Trek Madone 5.1, 2011 Trek 1.1, Trek 4500

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Steel frame questions

I am starting to look around for a new steed. I have looked at all the major name brand carbon bikes. While looking I found some custom steel frame builders and I am thinking that is the way i want to go. I am looking to spend a lot of money for me and i want it last as long as possible. I think steel has a better longevity and can be repaired.

I want to do some climbing with this new bike and am wondering if I am sacrificing anything by going steel instead of carbon. Also a few races here and their. I really like Rodriguez bikes. They seem to have a good rep. and a more race geometry that I am looking for. If anyone has another recommendations for a quality steel bike. My price range is about $5000 for a complete.

Thanks for any help.

Last edited by bclawrence; 09-09-12 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Forgot info
bclawrence is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 01:36 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 44 Posts
The nice thing about steel is it immediately lets people know that you are a troglodyte, retro-grouch. This saves everyone a lot of time.
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 01:59 PM
  #3  
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,842

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 919 Times in 606 Posts
Originally Posted by bclawrence
I am starting to look around for a new steed. I have looked at all the major name brand carbon bikes. While looking I found some custom steel frame builders and I am thinking that is the way i want to go. I am looking to spend a lot of money for me and i want it last as long as possible. I think steel has a better longevity and can be repaired.

I want to do some climbing with this new bike and am wondering if I am sacrificing anything by going steel instead of carbon. Also a few races here and their. I really like Rodriguez bikes. They seem to have a good rep. and a more race geometry that I am looking for. If anyone has another recommendations for a quality steel bike. My price range is about $5000 for a complete.

Thanks for any help.
So can carbon, and to a lesser extent, AL. Frame damage is such a rare thing, that I would put that consideration pretty far down the list of priorities.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 02:35 PM
  #4  
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,919

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22473 Post(s)
Liked 8,794 Times in 4,092 Posts
I think steel makes a fine bike frame.

If possible, pick a builder that you can meet, in person, for fitting and to go over your needs/goals/wishes/options.

I suspect you will be very pleased with the results. Don't worry that your final weight will be a pound or two heavier than a CF bike.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 02:54 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Consider stainless steel, nice and light. Firefly makes some beautiful custom bikes in your price range.
They are handmade out of Boston

https://fireflybicycles.com/bikes/road-stainless
cruiserhead is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 03:22 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Near Sacramento
Posts: 4,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
At your price range, the Guru Sidero would be a great build.
__________________
-------

Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.
JoelS is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 03:33 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 100

Bikes: Kona Lava Dome, Ross Professional Super Gran Tour

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Seven makes one - https://www.sevencycles.com/road/resolute-slx.php
bring is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 03:48 PM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2013 Trek Madone 5.1, 2011 Trek 1.1, Trek 4500

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the info. I will do my research on the good carbon bikes and reconsider.
bclawrence is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 04:09 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
cale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,250

Bikes: Kuota Ksano. Litespeed T5 gravel - brilliant!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Personally, I don't think you need to spend $5k to get a great bike regardless of the frame material. Are you planning on outfitting this bike with electronic gearing? Carbon wheelset?

From what you wrote I think you can get better value in an Ultegra or 105 groupset, Sram Apex or Force, Campy Centaur group. The choice of groupo and wheelset will make a big difference in the overall cost.

Have you ridden both carbon fiber and steel bikes? I just got my first carbon fiber bike this summer and I've got to say, if you want a bike that climbs well, is responsive, and lively there are some excellent carbon fiber bikes out there that fit the bill. They can be repaired but I don't expect that to be a something I'm going to need.

I rode steel from most my years. I still have a steel bike that I would never sell for sentimental reasons. But I would respectfully disagree with those that would argue that a steel bike is inherently superior to a carbon fiber bike. It depends on the steel and it depends on the carbon. Bike quality has always been highly variable depending on the manufacturer.

Highly desirable steel bikes have survived the test of time because the owners of said bikes are interested in a variety of qualities. It could be anything from the look of a lugged frame. Fillet brazing. Or a vintage attraction. It could be because they like the springiness of steel. That the savings in weight is negligible over other materials. Or they like the idea of buying a bike that is associated with an individual frame builder.

Finally, I know a man (in his 70's) that has ridden all his life and upon seeing my carbon fiber bike remarked. "Yeah, I went with titanium because it will last forever." For him, at least, he wanted to buy his last bike and ride it until he can't ride any more.

But you're talking about racing and the question is, "How competitive are you? And can you win on steel?"
cale is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 06:16 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Chris Pringle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
Posts: 1,311

Bikes: '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 18 Posts
Rodriguez (AKA R+E Cycles) in Seattle makes, IMHO, some of the finest steel bikes around. Lots of bang for your buck at premium quality. They have been in business for almost as long as I've been alive. Yes, do your due diligence, but I found them to be an absolute pleasure to work with, even long distance from down here in Mexico. Do make sure to anticipate everything you want on your wish list beforehand, run it by them and if they say "yes", those guys will deliver! They nailed everything down on my build list (I wanted quite a few braze-ons) and delivered a high quality custom bike. At your budget, you could get it with True Temper Platinum OX (they also build in beautiful stainless steel or pricey Ti), a nice campy groupset and handbuilt premium wheels, etc. They built me an altered model of their UTB for randonneuring/touring. Man, what a delight to ride both unloaded or fully loaded! Believe me, not too many builders can get that balance right.

I think carbon is really nice and the way they mold carbon to make some fantastic-looking bikes is truly amazing. At anything over USD $3500, I will, however, take a premium modern steel custom bike any day! This is mainly for the long term peace of mind a build of that caliber will offer me. BTW, the steel they use now is so much superior to even the fine steel used on nice bikes from the 70s or 80s... So much stronger while still keeping that compliant feel on the road that steel is known for.

As far as racing and climbing abilities on steel, you should have no issues. The way Rodriguez builds their racing frames (one of their specialties), you might have a small weight differential vis-à-vis carbon but nothing significant. I get the impression we are not talking about gram-counting TdF speeds and climbs here. So, the rest will be up to the rest of components you choose plus having a strong, fine-tuned engine - you!

Do not hesitate to PM me if you have any specific questions about my experience with R+E Cycles.

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 09-09-12 at 06:21 PM.
Chris Pringle is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 06:31 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cruiserhead
Nice. I thought a bike in stainless steel was just a fantasy.
Closed Office is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 07:10 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris Pringle
This is mainly for the long term peace of mind a build of that caliber will offer me. BTW, the steel they use now is so much superior to even the fine steel used on nice bikes from the 70s or 80s... So much stronger while still keeping that compliant feel on the road that steel is known for.
I would very much like to know why steel is going to give you long term piece of mind compared to other materials. Also, I would love to see some evidence that modern steel is "much superior" and "much stronger". And I agree it makes plenty of sense for a touring type bike but the paragraph I quoted is just a little strange to me.
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 07:57 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Chris Pringle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
Posts: 1,311

Bikes: '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by rebel1916
I would very much like to know why steel is going to give you long term piece of mind compared to other materials. Also, I would love to see some evidence that modern steel is "much superior" and "much stronger". And I agree it makes plenty of sense for a touring type bike but the paragraph I quoted is just a little strange to me.
Listen, don't want to hijack this thread with another steel Vs carbon Vs Aluminum Vs Ti war, if that's what you're getting at. There are plenty of those already. Now, in regard to the evidence on how the type of steels used on nice custom steel bikes today (e.g., Reynolds 725, 753, 853, True Temper Platinum OX, etc.) are superior in tensile strength and weight to the 70s-80s steels (mainly 531, Columbus from that era, Tange, some nice Japanese/French steels, etc.), this is clearly just a few keystrokes away in google for anyone to look up and read.

Many out there prefer carbon, while quite a few people prefer steel and a few others prefer aluminum or Ti. One might have his own personal reasons why one likes whatever material, whether it is super duper light weight, the allure of modern super aerodynamic designs, purpose, peace of mind, resilience, budget, the feel of X material, treating oneself to a custom bike made of X material, etc. That's all fine. Different strokes for different folks. At the end, we can all coexist and be happy with our personal decisions.

The OP asked for help. In this forum we simply offer and share our opinions and experiences. I don't expect you to agree. We know the OP is intelligent to do his/her due diligence. At the end of the day, s/he'll end up with the bike S/HE wants.

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 09-09-12 at 08:04 PM.
Chris Pringle is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:00 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Full disclosure: I think kneejerk defenders of carbon have drunk the KoolAid, and all my bikes but one these days are made of steel. I've seen carbon frames and forks catastrophically destruct under forces that would merely have bent steel. It doesn't happen often, but once is too many for me. Ask (or google) around and you'll start hearing carbon horror stories. Steel is also easily repairable.
I haven't kept track of the weights of modern steel frames, but I can't imagine that it's more than a pound or two more than carbon fiber. I'm carrying more than that around my waist.
Velo Dog is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:02 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 44 Posts
There is so much imaginary wisdom in this thread I want to bottle and smoke it.
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:22 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Chris Pringle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
Posts: 1,311

Bikes: '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by rebel1916
There is so much imaginary wisdom in this thread I want to bottle and smoke it.
Listen, dude! There's absolutely nothing positive you've contributed to answer the OP's original question. You came here simply to hijack the thread, which is totally uncool. So, yeah go away and continue smoking whatever you smoke.
Chris Pringle is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:31 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by Velo Dog
Full disclosure: I think kneejerk defenders of carbon have drunk the KoolAid, and all my bikes but one these days are made of steel. I've seen carbon frames and forks catastrophically destruct under forces that would merely have bent steel. It doesn't happen often, but once is too many for me. Ask (or google) around and you'll start hearing carbon horror stories. Steel is also easily repairable.
I haven't kept track of the weights of modern steel frames, but I can't imagine that it's more than a pound or two more than carbon fiber. I'm carrying more than that around my waist.
I just broke a 10 yr old steel Colnago. It's not repairable.



I won't be replacing it with another steel bike. If you want performance go with Carbon. If you want the retro look go with steel.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Colnago 5.jpg (44.4 KB, 84 views)
gregf83 is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:33 PM
  #18  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,568

Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 2,132 Times in 1,438 Posts
I've had bikes from all materials and each has advantages. I still have a 20 year old steel (Waterford) that's about of current as they come (threadless headset, CF fork and CF steerer, light wheel,s etc.) and it rides nice. At the other end, I've got CF (Cervelo and Guru) and they are much lighter and quicker (stiffer yet comfortable) in terms of responsiveness and sprints.

I would suggest if you get steel, do it for a special reason such as custom where you deal directly with the builder or appearance with unique lugs, paint, etc.
StanSeven is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:37 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris Pringle
Listen, dude! There's absolutely nothing positive you've contributed to answer the OP's original question. You came here simply to hijack the thread, which is totally uncool. So, yeah go away and continue smoking whatever you smoke.
I will do that as soon as you provide data to back up your overstated claims. Thank you, come again.
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 08:49 PM
  #20  
Gouge Away
 
kaliayev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BFOH
Posts: 984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by rebel1916
The nice thing about steel is it immediately lets people know that you are a troglodyte, retro-grouch. This saves everyone a lot of time.
Statements like this immediately lets everyone know how uniformed and ignorant you are. Thanks for playing.
kaliayev is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 09:18 PM
  #21  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,643 Times in 2,485 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83
I just broke a 10 yr old steel Colnago. It's not repairable.
Sure it is repairable, but probably not economic.

That thing was broken so long I'm surprised that Ernesto didn't send you a telegram telling you it was cracked
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 09:46 PM
  #22  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Vulcan
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just bought/build a lug steel frame (https://rikulau.com/rikulau_english/p...1=A&L2=C&L3=03) early last summer and it rides like a dream. It rides as nice as my Litespeed Tuscany Ti if not better.
When I finished with my build, my 11 yrs old daughter loves it so much and she wants one for herself. And since she is about ready for some serious riding (not just around the neighborhood riding), I might as well star her off on the right direction; so I order another Reynolds 853. After the whole summer of ridding, she is completely hooks with the bike.
Sure, there are different school of thought regarding the composition/material of the bike, but as for me, after number of years working in the aerospace industry, I have some idea of the limit/capability of CF. I could not afford a new bike for my daughter every time she lay down/drop the bike, since she is just a novice. IMHO, steel frame is the way to go. I have neither intention nor inclination to start on the forever- ending debate of what material is the best for bike construction.
As for OP’s question, at 5K price range, you sure can get something pretty fancy like Reynolds 953, 951, or even Ti. I am certain there are quite many wonderful steel frame builders out there to choose from – The list is long. As long as you don’t have some out-of-norm figure, I am sure you can find some off the shelve frame size that will work for you.
Also, IMHO, with the short chain stay, the bike can climb like a mountain goat; but with that same geometry the bike can’t really sprint (it would be very jumpy). So you have to define your own priority/balance. Good luck on your search.
HacO is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 10:12 PM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,361

Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 328 Posts
Might want to look at the new Raleigh International. Most of the local steel fans around here are either riding 30-year-old frames or new Waterfords. If I were looking at a new custom steel bike, though, my first choice would be Chas Roberts of Britain. I have fond memories of years of riding on two frames made by his father in the '70s.
oldbobcat is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 10:41 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
cale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,250

Bikes: Kuota Ksano. Litespeed T5 gravel - brilliant!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by HacO
I just bought/build a lug steel frame (https://rikulau.com/rikulau_english/p...1=A&L2=C&L3=03) early last summer and it rides like a dream. It rides as nice as my Litespeed Tuscany Ti if not better.
When I finished with my build, my 11 yrs old daughter loves it so much and she wants one for herself. And since she is about ready for some serious riding (not just around the neighborhood riding), I might as well star her off on the right direction; so I order another Reynolds 853. After the whole summer of ridding, she is completely hooks with the bike.
Sure, there are different school of thought regarding the composition/material of the bike, but as for me, after number of years working in the aerospace industry, I have some idea of the limit/capability of CF. I could not afford a new bike for my daughter every time she lay down/drop the bike, since she is just a novice. IMHO, steel frame is the way to go. I have neither intention nor inclination to start on the forever- ending debate of what material is the best for bike construction.
As for OP’s question, at 5K price range, you sure can get something pretty fancy like Reynolds 953, 951, or even Ti. I am certain there are quite many wonderful steel frame builders out there to choose from – The list is long. As long as you don’t have some out-of-norm figure, I am sure you can find some off the shelve frame size that will work for you.
Also, IMHO, with the short chain stay, the bike can climb like a mountain goat; but with that same geometry the bike can’t really sprint (it would be very jumpy). So you have to define your own priority/balance. Good luck on your search.
Nice fourth post! You need to write more often.
cale is offline  
Old 09-09-12, 11:09 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
Sure it is repairable, but probably not economic.

That thing was broken so long I'm surprised that Ernesto didn't send you a telegram telling you it was cracked
I tried to find someone local to just weld it up so I could dedicate it as a trainer bike but I had no luck. I suppose a welder at a body shop could fix it up.

What do you mean "broken so long"?
gregf83 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.