Steep hills...
 

Alright the 11-23 got me last night...

We were doing our normal loop around the victoria area and we went up Mary if you are familiar with the area, a nice 4 mile climbing loop. A few of us were way ahead and they recomended I try this "Hill" with them to let the others catch up. I do not mind hills but this one was hidous.

Estimated at least 15 percent, probably 16 or so straight up for 140 feet or so. I say the hill and said well I know I am going to have to stand and push the lowest gear on my second ring (39-23) to get up it, the granny should have been used but...

About 10 feet up I could not keep up, not power I was fine but I was was literally standing straight up pushing as hard as I could down and the bike would barily even move, it felt like I was on a stair stepper with a high intensity setting. The other two guys were doing about 40 - 50 RPMs and I was doing about 30 at the most. It took me twice as long to get up the hill.

At the bottom I asked what cassette they had (both has doubles) and they said 12 - 27, running in 39-27. BTW on the flats I was with them or a little faster or a little slower at times so power is really not the issue it was gearing. There were times on this hill where I felt like I was going to fall backwards it was so steep... not your normal "hill".

Now what are my options? I am not going to go to a new cassette now since I have my small bailout ring (which I should have been in) but I am going to go double. I want my 53-11 gear but I also would like a 27 on the bottom. I will probably not go compact (except for maybe a 52-36 if it is avalable). Is it possible to get an 11-27 cassette in 9 or 10 speed? Can I go 10 speed and replace the 12 with an 11? I do notice the difference between the 11 and the 12, have a 12 - 25 on my training wheelset.

Thanks as always

i have all SRAM cassettes, so my so-called "climbing" set-up is a 12-26. maybe that would work for you?

Make a custom cassette. Take apart a 11-23 and 12-27 and combine them. You will have to use the carrier of the last three cogs of the 12-27 (which I think are 21-24-27)

11,12,13,14,15, 17, 19, 21, 24, 27. (basically a 12-27 cassette without the 16 and in it's place an 11)

Sheldon Brown could make you a custom cassette out of two ultegra 10s casettes.

Could you explain why you need an 11 cog? IMHO, so take it with the grain of salt intended, the creation of a custom cassette to include both the 11 and 27 cog at the expense of the 16 cog is a huge mistake. If you are strong enough to actually use an 11 cog effectively more than an extremely small fraction of the time, you don't need a 27.

I could probably get away with a 12. The problem is the terrien around here. You go from fast 30+ MPH flats to 12 percent grades with in 10 miles. Last ride I was in a pace line doing 33 MPH spinning a 53-11 (85 RPM or so if I remember right) and 5 miles later I was climbing a 15 percent grade. Southern California is not flat at all.

I could theoretically spin a 53-12 and have approximatly the same range at a slightly higher cadence, like 95 RPMs or so. If this was a race only bike then I would not care about the rediciously big cogs like a 27 in the back and I would keep my 11-23 no problem.

Here are my options

53-39 with a 12-27 (9 or 10 speed)

53-39 with a 11-23 (9 or 10 speed, current setup)

50 - 36 (or 34) compact with 11-23 (better slightly for climbing but loosing top end. This may be the best option. Slightly lower than the current setup... like having a 39-25 or even 26 but only losing slight on top.

I guess you could say that a 53-12 will be as good or around the same as a 53-11... looking at gear ratios. (Lets please not have this discussion)

53 - 11-27 would be optimal but probably not possible.

Hard decision... best maybe to have one bike (like this trek) as the climbing bike, adding a 12-27 or even going 50- 34 compact with a 11-23 and have a flat slightly hilly traditional 53-39 double with a 11-23 or 25- 25... maybe even a 12-27...

You are probably right thought that the small amount of time you push a 53-11 would be small compared to having the 27 spinning at the bottom.

Bottom line...
53-39 with an 12-27 10 speed or 50-34 with 11-23

Hell, I'm starting to wonder why I need a 12. :eek:

From a purely training standpoint, I would look at power.

Power is what gets you up the hill. You can be very fast on the flats and good at endurance and suck at hills.

Have you trained on the hills? How much time?

It may be just a tweaking of your training program to get you up to speed with your pals. As your power output becomes more efficient, those hills will be easier, and then when you hit the hills, you won't need those granny gears. ;)

Koffee

That is true, my power maybe lacking a little for the hills. I can push a big gear forever on the flats (i.e. the 53-12 or 53-11) but the hills always give my trouble.

Could be my 225 weight compared to their 150 or so also...


It may be awhile till I get the new cassette or crank of both so we will see what happens. I do need to work more in the hills which is true, and more time in the gym...

(It is just annoying to get dropped time and time again on the steep stuff)

Thanks as always

No problem. Now get to work! It sounds like your endurance is fine, so you should get on the trainer or something like that and start doing lots of hillwork. I bet if you worked on the hills for 2 months, you will find you won't need new cassettes or cranks. ;)

Koffee

I have been debating this same thing. But every time I see a guy on a regular ol' road double cruise on past, I come to the conclusion Koffee suggests -- it's not all in the gearing, it's power and training (lack thereof in mycase). A lot of these guys (I suppose girls too but haven't seen any yet) are bigger than me, too, so no excuses on weight.

I've resolved to spend more time on the hills and save my money -- even if it results in the occasional annoyance of getting dropped (or more often in my case, the complete humiliation of dismounting and walking!).

sounds like wants to get rid of the triple, 11-27 with two chainrings isn't a bad idea especially if it is with a 50/34 compact.

So you are going to go to a double, when you just PROVED to yourself that the triple is what you need for the hills in your area**********??? I would rethink that one.

He shouldn't really be using the 21 or 23 cogs with the middle ring anyway, unless it doesn't rub.

But you are right, I don't know why he wants to get rid of the triple.

Brett12 is right. Take two cassettes and put together what you need. When I go to the Texas Hill Country I put together an 11-27 9-speed.

I have forgotten how tall you are, but if your weight is in excess of proportion to height, that can be fixed.

You also need crankarm length proportional to leg length. I like 5.3mm of crankarm / inch of inseam. Others go longer, and I think Cole is a little shorter. Really large people with long cranks find the low BB height relative to crank length to be a little bit of a problem when pedaling through corners.

People dump on me everytime I recommend relatively high cadence going uphill, but I don't think there is any good reason to spin less than flat-ground rpms going uphill. Put another way, whatever rpm you'd run to make the most power for a time trial the length of the hill on flat ground, is the rpm you should be turning going up the hill.

Well don't take this the wrong way, but you're weight is probably the biggest limiter on a hill like that. That said, if you're trying to figure out a new gearing, why not grab a 12-26 or 12-27 (or whatever) get the 16, but go to a 54/39 in the front. I'm not sure a 54/12 is equal to a 53/11 but you get the climbing gears and your flat performance should stay relatively the same.

If you keep the triple, but want a 53-11 you can do two things.

1. (best option) stick a 28T or 26T granny in the triple and keep 11-23

2. Use custom cassette with triple. (11-25 or 27)

If you are 6'6" why are you on 175mm crank arms? If I were you I'd forget all this low gearing stuff and get some longer arms.

WHen I up the crankset that would be no problem. I am running 180's on my MTB and will probably find 180's for the road bike.

I am 225 6'6". I need to be down to about 200, anylower would be pushing it. I have not decided whether to keep the triple or go to a double, I almost never use the granny gear on my current triple. I climb just about everything in the middle ring 39-21 or 39-23, no rubbing. When I do go to the granny gear (30) I rarly go below 30- 21, even on the steepest hills, usually a gear or two higher. I am quite happy with my combo now but I really hate having to drop to the granny gear, expecially when most of the fast guys run doubles with 25 and 27 cassettes out back.

My main thing is going to a double but getting a gear or two lower than the 39-23 that I am running right now. My current setup is a custom 53-39-30T with the 11-23 ultegra 9 speed rear cassette. I am going to probably go with a dura ace full 10 speed setup but I am in the phase of can I run a double and get away with it.

I do not want to be the only one with a triple when I go road racing or do crits... :p

The funny thing in my area is when you go to the shops 90 percent of the road bikes have triples, only the high 10 percent have doubles, usually dura ace 10 or compact. The reason for me to want lower gearing even with the triple to to stay in the second ring, like a double. Since I have the triple it probably does not matter....

At 16% it's really just a prayer until it's over with, but I'd recommend bursting right before the start of the hill so you have some momentum to get going. If you can't grind anymore, zig zag or simply get off and walk. I'm sure you already know all of this so I guess this is just babbling :p

180mm compact is available.

Work hard and grow some muscle and you can use the double and there will be no questions to ask.Stop eating so much dead animal flesh and loose some weight. If a 12-27 can't get it it's you, don't blame the bike! I've ridden up hills that others are walking their bikes up with my 12-27; it's all about pain - no pain no gian, it's that simple. Just do it!

Just curious, if one was a strong rider on hills a double 11-23 then swithes to a 12 27, would the extra teeth make him ride faster/slower/ or no improvement?

Just curious if there was an advantage to the harder gearing (other than hard earner muscles).

The 39-27 is lower gearing, not higher. If I can push a 39-23 I should beable to at least pedal a 39-27. I do not currently ride a 12-27, I ride a 11-23. I have cut back on Animal flesh and fried potatoes amoung other tihings. Six moths ago I was over 250... so please do not play like I am some pig eating everything.

I will never be a 150 pound hill master but I can get better. There are just some hills that demand some smaller gearing.

BTW yesterday I banged up my knee a little in a MTB crash (the jekyll, killing the front wheel). It was hurting alittle pushing that high gear up that hill. I see a rider who is of simular of better fitness spining (ya 40 RPM) up the hill when I am pushing a much higher gear and barily hanging on. Once you start developong some RPMs momentum is your friend and the going gets easier...

This is typical of the bad advice given on this forum. He is 6'6" tall. There is no way he will weigh 170 unless he gets cancer or looks like he has cancer. My advice get some longer crank arms.

I'm 6'2" and I run 180's. I can't imagine how anybody 6'6" goes up hills with 175's. That would be like me pedaling with 160's or 165's. The short arms never work well in situations where you are overgeared (hills/tall ratios).

Short crank arms do work well with low gears (where rpms matter more than force applied).

Bigger gears make you slower on the hills, since they fatigue your muscles more quickly. Cadences much less than 60 rpm are particularly inefficient. I prefer 65-75. If you can't maintain those cadences, consider a smaller gear.

53-12 is about 34.4 mph @ 95 rpm... faster than...

53-11 is about 33.5 mph @ 85 rpm