abstractform20

i do not understand all of the banned substances.

however, i think it is silly to argue the doing something like taking a substance that improves recovery time is illegal; at the same time it is perfectly legal to have a hyperbaric chamer.

in any case, hopefully this thread will result in explaining the effects and purpose of taking a specific banned substance.

this is not to argue morality or cheating, but simply to learn.

well...heres to hoping this thread doesnt get sidetracked immediately (useless hope)

Homebrew01

: : : : : : : :

Do some reading:

https://www.usada.org/substances

IBMTNFDF (In Before Move To Newly Formed Doping Forum)

Pendergast

Here's a pretty good article on doping. It's mainly about EPO which was the major breakthrough in doping. Scroll down a bit to get to the article.

https://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/12-08-29/

It doesn't talk much about steroids, but as I understand it, steroids not only improve recovery time, they also increase a cyclist's will to ride hard.

bike56

Didn't Tyler get busted for DHEA,same thing you can get in a health food store.I think it's a natural hormone that is depleted as you age

Commodus

It's pretty straightforward. Aspirin is a drug just like EPO. The difference, one of these things is on the list of banned substances that every cyclist signs on to when he buys his license. The other, you're allowed to take.

It's not like the list is a big secret.

carpediemracing 

Here's the thing about doping. It's not necessarily illegal if you're just riding your bike around.

However, if you want to race, you need to get a license. When you get your license you agree to abide by the rules. The rules say you can't dope, i.e. use banned substances. You can choose not to agree but then you can't get a license and you can't race sanctioned events. Lance right now has done a couple non-sanctioned events because they don't require the competitors to follow the anti-doping rules (one of the rules is that if you dope and get suspended then you can't compete).

The low oxygen tents are legal I think. So are compression clothing, massage, eating food, many supplements, etc.

Other things are illegal. EPO. Steroids. HGH. Blood transfusions. Gene doping I think is illegal even though there's no test for it. I don't know about nano particles (i.e. miniature mechanical things in your body). Storing power in your bike is illegal, making electric motors, compressed air, and even spring loaded weights on your spokes illegal.

The rest of the morality, if it's harmful or not, if it's legal or not, that's besides the point. If the rules say you can't then you can't.

Ironically non-racers are allowed to dope because they never agreed anywhere not to dope. So if you want to dope like mad for the Friday night group ride, that's totally okay. It's even legal if you're using over the counter stuff, i.e. not breaking any prescription type laws or using illegal drugs. If you happen to be a licensed racer then it's not okay.

abstractform20

reread my post. im trying to learn about the actual effects of various banned substances--not why they are banned.

carpediemracing 

You don't state that specifically in your post, i.e. "Will someone explain what does what?"

https://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html

The above skips blood doping, it's just about drugs. For blood doping it's probably best to read The Secret Race. Although the recent reports talk a lot about the various methods they don't talk as much about the benefits. Hamilton/Coyle's book goes into that a bit. Blood doping seems to be quite effective if you don't mind peeing out rust colored pee or taking the chance of having massive internal organ failure.

Keep in mind that we're talking about pros that are already pretty honed fitness-wise. Even the doping amateurs were probably up there in their potential fitness before they doped. Maybe not 98% of their potential but it seems that after a few years that's when they doped.

From what I gathered the main benefit of doping was to both quickly recover up to whatever trained level one had (steroids, testosterone, HGH, EPO, blood doping) as well as boost said level (EPO, blood doping). When I say "quickly" I mean recovering virtually completely overnight from even the hardest rides (read the linked article above on this).

gsteinb

Perhaps not sidetracked, but moved maybe.

What's the intent here and what does it have to do with Road? I can see Racing and one wanting to make sure they're clean, but this is more confusing. You want to learn about what illegal drugs to take in order to win the local century? The easiest way is to run down the list and start googling. It'll take a long time and may simply leave you with more confusion. Some things are just masking agents. Others have controversial or hypothetical advantages.

rangerdavid

I don't race, therefore I don't care WTF is banned or not. And Tigard sucks.

Namji

I think it is very naive to think that most top pro cyclist don't dope..
To be able to perform the way they do, they have to dope.. I also think that many of the Olympic athletes dope in order to break all these world records..

tagaproject6

+1

Menel

Banned substance, or banned procedure. The substance in question is not banned, it's the procedure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

bikerjp

Hard to say now. Seems to be some evidence that they are not such as the watt/kg numbers. However, what I suspect they are doing and will continue to do and what we as average cyclists can do is find the right food, supplements, etc. that help us perform at our best. I know there are days I feel a lot more energetic than others. If I could figure out why I keep doing that. I suspect many pros have figured that out. And, yes, I'm sure some are not happy with that and want to the extra distance and use banned substances.

Gordy748

The list, while not a secret, is very long and has a lot of drugs in that are commonly prescribed. I think Sudafed has a few banned substances in that, even though it's medication for a sinus infection.

Successful doping (i.e. doping without getting caught) is actually quite hard to do. Yes, you can take steroids or EPO or HGH, but it's pretty straightforward that you will also get caught once tested. In order to dope effectively and not get caught, you need a cocktail of performance enhancing drugs along with masking agents to cover them. Many riders are caught on the masking agents (and this is why a lot of banned drugs aren't performance enhancing). A lot of OTC drugs contain masking agents, and this is why so many (like Sudafed) are banned.

Trusting your doctor won't necessarily help. A lot of banned drugs are legal to take, like synthetic testosterone which is widely prescribed to older men as part of recognized therapeutic practices. Doctors are also not familiar with the drug list so claiming ignorance because you have a doctor's note may result in a reduced suspension at best.

Another issue is contamination of edible products. You are what you eat and if your food has a banned drug in it you can test positive. Contador's clenbuterol positive was a result of having eaten meat that had the drug. While I believe Contador dopes as much as any of them, I don't believe he was deliberately taking clenbuterol.

My last point is the moral question of doping. If I gave you a drug that was as effective as EPO, but was a different substance and hence not banned, would you take it? Both Indurain and Delgado took substances that were legal at the time and have since been banned, but does this make them dopers?

Commodus

Haha, wow yea that was not clear.

rjones28 

Seems pretty clear to me.

Commodus

Hey let's argue about clarity. /facepalm.

MDfive21

fixed that..

here's a couple examples of where you can find good info.

https://www.sportsscientists.com/ read the articles on lance and hit the links when they refer to outside content.

https://nyvelocity.com/content/interv...chael-ashenden

for specific info on each drug, wikipedia is hands down the best source.
here's the list.. https://www.usada.org/uploads/wada_pr..._list_2012.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corticosteroid

DannoXYZ 

It's not all that black & white as CDR pointed out. A lot of drugs are regulated based upon amount, not just all-or-nothing presence. Such as coffee, it's legal now, but you used to be allowed only up to a certain amount. It's really a good performance enhancer, maybe more for the amateur than pros as it masks the sensation of pain from your brain. You're able to push yourself to the absolute physical limit before quitting. Helpful to get the maximum benefit out of interval-training. If you're a pro however, you most likely already have the discipline and stamina to hit max-HR each and every time. More of a training-aid than race-day winner.

Here's some articles by one of the guys I raced with:
Confessions of An Un-Doper Part One: My Primary Non-Addiction
Confessions of An Un-Doper Part Two: My Struggle With Allergy Meds
Confessions of An Un-Doper Part Three: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

There are many, many ordinary over-the-counter things you can get that will help with training and even race-day performance. The legality is in how you use them.

abstractform20

"hopefully this thread will result in explaining the effects and purpose of taking a specific banned substance"

gregf83 

To go faster.

Rowan

To win races. To make obscene amounts of money. To feed an insatiably rampant and domineering ego.

As to the effect -- undetermined physical and psychiatric issues that might result in death a-la-Pantani... and the theft from clean and honest riders of the opportunity to make a career in a sport they start out loving.

Homebrew01

I didn't think anyone actually believed the beef story. Were the plasticizers from the IV bag in the beef too ?

JonnyHK 

I don't claim ignorance, I simply have a low care factor.

I race in a couple of sports (cycling and rowing) and while I have never been asked to do a drug test of any sort I am technically signed up for it as a condition of membership in the sporting associations (which themselves are linked to a national federation and so on).

Why have I never done a test? I don't compete at a high enough level (not even when I was at my peak for rowing) for the testers to waste time and resources. Guys I raced against (and beat a couple of times!) did get tested, but they had nominated for national selection and had be put on the list for testing.

I do not take any drugs with the aim of specifically improving my performance, but I have knowingly taken drugs I am aware are banned.

Why? Because there are a bunch of things you can buy over the counter that are on the banned list. I've certainly taken cold/flu medications that contain pseudoephedrine (aka 'speed'). I also don't go around double checking everything I might be prescribed by a doctor or recommended by a pharmacist against the official banned list. Life is too short.

Do I care? Not really. I'm a real person living a real life. I don't have easy access to a sports med specialist. My sport is low level and for fun. I also have an incredibly low chance of being tested.

If I had ever pushed and done the national time trial events for crew selection I would have been more careful, but I would have also had access to the resources of the sports institute.

However, having the backing of a national team with a doc on board to help doesn't always work out. A couple of years back a couple of AUS swimmers were hit with short bans after the doc gave them something that later caused a positive test. Turns out the Australian formulation for a name-brand product was OK for use, but the formulation available in the other country where they were racing was not. Doc runs out of this product and just bought some more, but didn't double check that the formulation was the same despite the brand. Ooops.