strava - getting lame?
10-28-12, 02:02 PM
#26
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https://app.strava.com/segments/1942043
I knew there was a wind from the east, could feel it as I was heading south. And I knew there was a segment there. As soon as I turned, I took full advantage of the tailwind...and went from nothing to 3rd overall for that segment. I'm sure I ticked off a few guys, but so be it. I've since gotten bumped down to 5th, but hey I'll take it.
10-28-12, 02:02 PM
#27
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I haven't used Strava in the car yet, but I did monitor a trip in the golf cart using MapMyRide. I'm faster on the bike, so it's pretty useless as a cheat.
10-28-12, 02:05 PM
#28
Senior Member
You get better by doing intervals, so what better way to gauge your HTFU interval ability by trying to get in the top 10% of a segment?
Running stop signs... PFFFT. Not normal. Flag em.
Running stop signs... PFFFT. Not normal. Flag em.
10-28-12, 02:09 PM
#29
Beer >> Sanity
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10-28-12, 02:11 PM
#30
abandoning
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As a short-distance sprinter and hill climber, I often just race the segments, then spend a little time recovering. Nothing wrong with that if that's how you ride.
As for racing a segment just because it exists, I think I'd pass if there wasn't something unique about it, such as an incline, or from one town line to the next. If it's just an arbitrary section of flat road, then who cares?
In my town, there are a few guys who constantly battle for KOM, and I'm one of them. To me, it's not so much about being in first place, as it is about getting faster, especially on climbs. If, in June, the best I can do is 1:10, and then some guy a month later gets a 1:03, I'm bound to go back and try to beat his time, just to see if I've improved over the weeks. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. either way, it gives me something to do during my ride, other than just sit, pedal, and smell car fumes.
The important thing is to remember it's just a fun way to improve and compete. It's not to be taken seriously--due to wind, drafting, bike type, temperature, barometric pressure--so just enjoy it for what it is. Really, the only way you're going to know how fast you are compared to others, is to compete head-to-head in a sanctioned race. I can tie or destroy most of the sprinting and hill climb KOMs of one of the fastest racers in my area, but when we both participated in the same 100mi+ race, he finished about 2 hours ahead of me. So, don't fool yourselves, kids.
As for racing a segment just because it exists, I think I'd pass if there wasn't something unique about it, such as an incline, or from one town line to the next. If it's just an arbitrary section of flat road, then who cares?
In my town, there are a few guys who constantly battle for KOM, and I'm one of them. To me, it's not so much about being in first place, as it is about getting faster, especially on climbs. If, in June, the best I can do is 1:10, and then some guy a month later gets a 1:03, I'm bound to go back and try to beat his time, just to see if I've improved over the weeks. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. either way, it gives me something to do during my ride, other than just sit, pedal, and smell car fumes.
The important thing is to remember it's just a fun way to improve and compete. It's not to be taken seriously--due to wind, drafting, bike type, temperature, barometric pressure--so just enjoy it for what it is. Really, the only way you're going to know how fast you are compared to others, is to compete head-to-head in a sanctioned race. I can tie or destroy most of the sprinting and hill climb KOMs of one of the fastest racers in my area, but when we both participated in the same 100mi+ race, he finished about 2 hours ahead of me. So, don't fool yourselves, kids.
at least i still hold all the koms on the local mup...
jk.
10-28-12, 02:16 PM
#32
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What you call 'gaming' the system are perfectly valid training techniques. They just happen to be doing their training on a known segment. I recall a saying by A. Coggan something to the effect of, 'testing is training and training is testing'.
Regarding using tailwind for a KOM, bragging or caring about a non-hill based KOM is lame.
Regarding using tailwind for a KOM, bragging or caring about a non-hill based KOM is lame.
Last edited by gregf83; 10-28-12 at 03:23 PM.
10-28-12, 02:23 PM
#33
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I like Strava and use it. They do have some common sense stuff that helps minimize the gaming such as requiring heart rate data for KOM's. However, there are two things that bug me. First are random climbs popping up that don't really exist. I can think of a couple of cat 4 "climbs" that I've seen that don't really exist in real life. Like this one:
https://app.strava.com/segments/1142752
I have no idea where Strava gets this data from. Maybe someone's Garmin is totally out of whack and they're recorded as climbs even though they're clearly not. I sure hope cell phones aren't allowed to provide elevation data for segments.
Secondly it's too easy for people to flag segments when they're replaced as a KOM. We have an eight mile out and back where a lot of training is done during the week with a small climb at the end. There must be 8 different segments created by people on this route with different stop and start points, all with non active leader boards because some fool gets mad when he's knocked off the KOM and flags it.
Something I would like to see is a discussion page or comments included for each segment and maybe some local curation or crowd sourcing (on a volunteer basis) to help purge some of this stuff out of the system.
https://app.strava.com/segments/1142752
I have no idea where Strava gets this data from. Maybe someone's Garmin is totally out of whack and they're recorded as climbs even though they're clearly not. I sure hope cell phones aren't allowed to provide elevation data for segments.
Secondly it's too easy for people to flag segments when they're replaced as a KOM. We have an eight mile out and back where a lot of training is done during the week with a small climb at the end. There must be 8 different segments created by people on this route with different stop and start points, all with non active leader boards because some fool gets mad when he's knocked off the KOM and flags it.
Something I would like to see is a discussion page or comments included for each segment and maybe some local curation or crowd sourcing (on a volunteer basis) to help purge some of this stuff out of the system.
10-28-12, 02:50 PM
#34
Do a barrel roll.
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The other day I commuted to work from a new location. Took it easy for the 8 mile route and had a KOM when I got there. Averaged 18mph (as was my segment speed.) That evening at 9:00pm I got a message that my KOM had been stolen by the guy that was in second place. It's a 2 minute flat section. He did it at 19mph. His ride average was 14mph.
I guarantee you the next time I go out I'll give it a firm shot at breaking that. The way I look at it, it's funny that it's that important to people, but it's a great way to force me into some sort of interval or hard effort during what would normally be a mediocre ride.
I guarantee you the next time I go out I'll give it a firm shot at breaking that. The way I look at it, it's funny that it's that important to people, but it's a great way to force me into some sort of interval or hard effort during what would normally be a mediocre ride.
10-28-12, 02:58 PM
#35
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Nothing wrong with a good old competition. The segments that I shoot for are the ones that lots (over 200) have ridden and the longer ones that are over a mile or two. And sure a few of the shorter ones that a bunch of buddies have shot for. Either way, it's just a tool.
10-28-12, 03:01 PM
#36
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I've had Strave create those Cat 4 segments on it's own. I think it's usually a result of an altimeter glitch. If you put in a support ticket they will delete it. It can't be done by the user.
I like Strava and use it. They do have some common sense stuff that helps minimize the gaming such as requiring heart rate data for KOM's. However, there are two things that bug me. First are random climbs popping up that don't really exist. I can think of a couple of cat 4 "climbs" that I've seen that don't really exist in real life. Like this one:
https://app.strava.com/segments/1142752
I have no idea where Strava gets this data from. Maybe someone's Garmin is totally out of whack and they're recorded as climbs even though they're clearly not. I sure hope cell phones aren't allowed to provide elevation data for segments.
Secondly it's too easy for people to flag segments when they're replaced as a KOM. We have an eight mile out and back where a lot of training is done during the week with a small climb at the end. There must be 8 different segments created by people on this route with different stop and start points, all with non active leader boards because some fool gets mad when he's knocked off the KOM and flags it.
Something I would like to see is a discussion page or comments included for each segment and maybe some local curation or crowd sourcing (on a volunteer basis) to help purge some of this stuff out of the system.
https://app.strava.com/segments/1142752
I have no idea where Strava gets this data from. Maybe someone's Garmin is totally out of whack and they're recorded as climbs even though they're clearly not. I sure hope cell phones aren't allowed to provide elevation data for segments.
Secondly it's too easy for people to flag segments when they're replaced as a KOM. We have an eight mile out and back where a lot of training is done during the week with a small climb at the end. There must be 8 different segments created by people on this route with different stop and start points, all with non active leader boards because some fool gets mad when he's knocked off the KOM and flags it.
Something I would like to see is a discussion page or comments included for each segment and maybe some local curation or crowd sourcing (on a volunteer basis) to help purge some of this stuff out of the system.
10-28-12, 04:57 PM
#40
moth -----> flame
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If someone wants to use their ride time like that, good luck to 'em. I still like using strava, but I don't get bent out of shape over KOM's. Too many truly fast guys around here anyway. As was noted elsewhere, I much prefer comparing my time on segments with folks I actually ride with.
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BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
10-28-12, 04:58 PM
#41
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It's fun, and has some use a training a tracking tool. I will never be KOM, but i find myself structuring my ride to determine where to give max effort. Seems to be good as an way to ride in intervals.
10-28-12, 05:03 PM
#42
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I haven't finished getting all the PR's I want yet, so Strava isn't boring me yet.
10-28-12, 09:54 PM
#43
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No one is getting any medals for sprinting less than a mile around my neighborhood... Considering people also get Olympic medals for throwing heavy balls, which I'm not interested in, I don't think that's a valid point for the segment that's two blocks long being impressive.
10-29-12, 02:17 PM
#44
or tarckeemoon, depending
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Using my phone it's not the most accurate either and there are some weird Bermuda Triangle kind of segments. One segment on a ride I do often has me averaging 28.6 MPH over 16.7 miles and nowhere near the top of the leaderboard. According to Strava on my last ride over that route I topped out at 58.8 MPH. Riiiiiiiight. I figure if my ride data is that messed up I'm "competing" with a lot of people with similarly messed up data.
It's a fun toy and can be motivating, but it should be taken with a huge grain of salt and the understanding that others are doing their thing under different conditions, with different goals, and with different ideas of what constitutes acceptable risk.
10-29-12, 07:08 PM
#47
burp
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No hill training here in Houston, so Strava is pointless. Most KOM winners are just guys that ride tailwinds on flat lands. Never interested me personally.
Just get out and ride.
Just get out and ride.
10-29-12, 08:01 PM
#48
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My ride yesterday had a segment where the top 4 riders averaged between 49 and 52 mph. No wattage, no heart rate, obviously driving. Seeing this more and more on segments. Usually compare myself on the lists to what looks like some normal results.
10-29-12, 09:16 PM
#49
Guitar Master
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I live in a big city with lots of fast riders so there's no way I'm going to be collecting any KOMs unless I create a segment in my driveway. I do however like to use the segments to get PBs so I can see if I'm getting any better.
10-30-12, 07:33 AM
#50
Making a kilometer blurry
To be clear, by these standards, Strava has always been lame. Let it be known that all of my KOMs were cherry-picked (recover before and after/tailwind/leadouts), and there is no other way to get them once they've been around for a while. It is what it is.
My only rule is no cars. I've accidentally taken some KOMs by drafting dump trucks, then gone back and deleted the ride.
My only rule is no cars. I've accidentally taken some KOMs by drafting dump trucks, then gone back and deleted the ride.