Like the guy at nnssd.com says, you have to be prepared mentally to pull a gun, your adrenaline will pump and you have to read the persons body language to know if you should use it to take a life, while gambling with yours!!

What i did was i went and got myself a used $100 road bike and keep my nice bike for the weekend or rides in nice neighborhoods. Some dude tried to clothesline me off of a new "decent" looking bike that wasn't even all that expensive, so i sold it.
If you've got carbon or titanium save it for GMR or PCH or whatever with your buddies...

Everyone should know how to handle and maintain firearms - Even if you don't believe in them - If you are going to carry a fire arm then do so - And do it legally...

I can think of nothing but bad things that could happen to someone who brandishes a toy firearm...

I do support your right to keep and bare toy or real firearms fully...

thanks for the link....excellent reading!

Project much?

I'm not a "gun nut" just like I doubt you'd like for me to imply that you're a communist or socialist anti-gun liberaltard.

I carry a firearm, much like when I was single I carried a condom. My theory is, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I carry concealed, so nobody knows that I have a firearm; and I hope that no day comes that will expose everyone around me to the fact that I carry on a constant basis. And yes, I've been in heated arguments and even fights... with never the intention of drawing a firearm... Don't use the hyperbole argument that anytime something goes wrong the gun owner is going to start shooting... as a matter of fact, look up crime rates for CCW holders... You'll see they're basically non-existant.

I understand control, and common sense... (I think our cross state line and 4473's should be tightened up)... but the firearm isn't the source of the problems in our society; and trying to take it away from people who are responsible isn't the answer to curbing the behavior of those that have mal-intent. Plus, when you take away guns from your society... what's to stop someone... say... oh hitler (he was big fan of taking all guns away from everyone) from happening?

Again, it's not about the gun, my firearm doesn't need a leash... it's an inanimate object and cannot act on it's own. It requires action on my part, and responsibility on my part to do anything. Stop blaming an inanimate object for society's problems.

I can't say anything about the fake gun that hasn't already been said . . . but are you seriously OK with people throwing beer bottles at you?

Out of curiosity, what would you do if a couple armed felons broke into your home at night? How would you protect your family? Call 911 and wait for the police to arrive?

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm genuinely interested to see things from another perspective.

No, not projecting.

I'm just being 100% honest when I say that as a civilian in the United states, I cannot think of a single confrontation for myself that I would be better served wielding a gun, concealed or unconcealed. You can come up with some outlandish violent scenarios, but my reply is that you should have paid better attention before getting yourself into that situation in the first place.

I'm also not saying all folks are gun nuts, but I find this notion of needing to carry firearms in the United States for protection from other people totally ridiculous. Great britain has already decided this and outlawed guns in the civilian population, as have many other 1st world countries. In fact, it's pretty strange when even after a rash of unfortunate shootings such as Columbine etc., that there is no political or social movement to even eliminate rapid fire weapons from the populace at large. There is NO reason why a civilian should require a semiautomatic pistol or rifle in society.

And don't be blind to the role of guns in increasing risk of deaths. If you gave guns to everyone on streets, even with training, odds are 100% that the rate of death through shootings would go up signficantly. There are simply too many situations where you THINK it's needed, but your judgment in the heat of the moment is wrong, as it the recent case in Florida about stand your ground.

As a gun owner, I'd rack the one shell of my 590a1 in the tube into the chamber... stick a few more rounds in the tube from the butt stock ammo holder... hide behind my bed with my wife and dial 911. Announcing very loudly that I'm armed and ready to shoot whoever was in the house... then I'd wait for the cavalry to arrive while informing them of the schematic of my house that I keep hidden under the flower pot at my front door... and my location and that I'm armed.

Some people would just comply with any demand and hope and pray that it's over soon and that they don't die.

As noted earlier, OP seems like a reasonable, literate guy who has done some thinking. Though how he arrived so effortlessly to conclude that a toy gun is a good idea, beats me. This is a sure fire way to get killed or at best jailed. The downside to this idea is exponentially greater than any upside. Dont do it. Just ride elsewhere or sign up for spinning instead.

I'm not going to justify you with a reason... Just like I wouldn't ask you to justify me for a reason to support your first amendment right. When you start justifying your rights you're on the path to losing them.

I have managed to avoid 99% of the situations that were dangerous for my family, friends and I... because I grew up in South Phoenix, I know when people are acting hanky and with ****ty intent. This does not mean that I'm always ready for any situation, that's impossible. But, I carry because I know that while the odds are not in favor of me being in a violent confrontation that will require my firearm... I'd still rather be ready; than on my knees begging some stranger to not shoot my wife or myself.

Also... there was a guy in texas that managed to shoot a whole bunch of people with a bolt action rifle... so the idea that semi-automatic weapons are the problem is also a copout.

If a couple armed felons broke into my house at night the LAST thing I want to do is shoot at them and put myself and family at risk.

I'd tell them where the money and jewelry is, and hope they get out as quickly as possible. Only after everyone's safe would I call the police.

And I'm no wuss. I'm trained enough in various martial arts and strong enough that I can readily take down most adults (I routinely put down guys from the good HS wrestling team when I was younger just to demonstrate, at their request.) It's just not a good idea to escalate a violent situation with lethal force, if you manage to kill the assailant. The legal fallout from that alone would end my career - not worth it, even during a robbery.

Giving armed felons a reason to use lethal force against you, is the stupidest idea I could think of. Most armed felons are not rational, intelligent beings who are weighing risk/benefits. They show up with guns to intimidate, but are likely easily scared (or bullied) into firing them if you shoot first. The dumbest thing to do is to give them ANY reason to fire on you with their trigger-happy fingers.

To the nth degree. If you are gonna pack heat, pack real heat.

Please reconsider.

I personally live on the fourth floor of an apartment building, so there's no plausible chance of this happening. If I lived in a single family home, I'd flee the house. I don't have kids and I don't ever intend to, so that's not really a factor.

I'd also note that home invasions are quite rare, and invasions that end in bodily harm to the occupants are much more rare than mistakes with firearms that injure the owner or others. I'm pretty much a numbers guy, and I'm not about to increase my risk of bad things happening on the off chance that someone will break into my house with the intent of hurting me.

I sincerely hope that you never have to put this idea to the test... and I hope that if you do, it works out well for you.

yep, definitely a troll thread. and it's working unfortunately..

I disagree, this thread started conversation that is still adult in nature about the ownership of firearms and their use for defense in the United States.

Most threads of this nature immediately derail into people calling each other socialists, communists, gun nuts, etc..etc... and go nowhere.

The idea that any of us are going to change anyone's mind about gun ownership is much like arguing with a religious person or anything else that's cemented into someone's beliefs... it's not gonna happen.

But it is nice to hear the other side of the argument presented in an adult way.

OP, also carry a fake knife. March bravely into nights of darkness, and may your flailing arms of fire extinguish the burning courage of attackers-would-be

Point taken.

With all due respect, I'm sure the victims of home invasions didn't think it could ever happen to them. If I were a woman, I'd rather risk shooting myself accidentally than to be ***** in the middle of the night. But I understand your reasons for not owning a gun.

How about instead of potentially escalating the situation with a replica gun, try to get a group together on meetup or something like that?
If you have even 2 or 3 guys riding, odds are much better in your favour.
If you get 4 or more, you are pretty much guaranteed to be left alone.

Meet new people, make new friends and diffuse any issues before they even come up.

The BEST weapon to use for on-bike protection:

1) Your brain (duh). Avoid sketchy situations and be cool and collected if getting confronted.

The next best weapon:

2) Video. Seriously. You've probably seen the recent viral video of the professional riders who got tailed and honked at for 5 minutes straight. No need to get violent - one of them just calmly pulled a cell phone out, recorded various sections of the driver rant including license plate, and presented it to the authorities (it was also posted online, where it went viral and now all that guy's neighbors know what a ****** he is.) I know carrying video isn't a reality for everyone, but if you can go through the trouble of carrying a replica gun, putting a quick button on your phone for video (that's what the pro riders did - phone video) should be no biggie.

I don't think I suggested that a home invasion couldn't happen, merely that the likelihood of winding up dead as a result of owning a gun is higher than the likelihood of being killed in a home invasion.

To be clear, I'm not likely to have a single family home anytime in the forseeable future (say, ~10 years). As such, there's even less in it for me to arm myself. The odds of someone going through security, choosing my/our apartment, and intending to do harm is just staggeringly low, to the point where preparing for such an event would be paranoia.

I don't have the exact figures, but I actualy suspect that the odds of you getting injured by YOUR OWN GUN likely exceed the small probability that you'll get home-invaded AND seriously injured. Especially for the scenarios of women 'getting ***** in the middle of the night' by some stranger, which are quite rare (they do occur, but they're rare.)

I love these arguments. "What would you do if a meteor fell on your head, hmmmm?!"

Let's get some perspective - about 3/4 of burglaries take place when no one is home. When someone is home, the result is non-violent about 3/4 of the time. When there IS violence, the offender is known to the victim about 2/3 of the time.

Moral of the story - it's not common and watching who you hang out with goes a long, long way.

The nice thing about drivers that you want to kill, is that you don't have to. Take heart in the knowledge that by sitting in their cloud of obese smog, they are killing themselves. It's just a matter of time.

Moral of the story (in my book) - Anyone who thinks they need NEED a gun for safety in urban or suburban United States, is using the gun to deal with some insecurity issues that should be dealt with in a nonviolent way. There, I said it again.

You can make as many fictional what-if safety situations you want - it's just not a reality that you have to be ready to shoot someone on a regular basis just to stay safe.

The way you suggest that everyone who carries a firearm is handily and readily ready to take someone's life (or attempt to)... makes me believe you don't understand the concept in the first place. Granted there are going to be a bunch of macho guys who say "f yeah I'll kill anyone."... in reality it's in our programming to not kill people.. and those that do are often traumatized for a very long time. (I have a friend who shot a home invader with a shotgun... guy died; and my friend is still suffering from PTSD... but the guy he shot was known for being violent when occupants were still in the house).

I dread the day, if it ever comes that I would have to use my firearm as self-defense. But, I'd still rather be alive than dead should a situation ever arise that I need to discharge my firearm in defense.

Either way, your argument is circular in nature and you're cemented in your position so I'll stop responding... but just cause *you* haven't ever had to deal with a ****ty situation does not discount the fact that every day lawful citizens in this country do have to deal with ****ty situations. And your idea of disarming all those people, because of anecdotal evidence on your part is very short sighted.

I mostly agree. Choosing time and place, avoiding risks is the key. I love guns, love shooting, had training, but almost never carry. I think there is a higher chance of loosing my gun, or someone stealing it, doing something stupid with it, than really getting in a position to use it to defend my life.

However, I've had a chance to inspect some local police statistics. It was scary and amazing looking at the number and places of violent crimes in my relatively peaceful town. It was like a totally different world that I didn't even realise existed. Got me thinking. I still don't carry, just not as sure as before that I won't regret not carrying.


On the toy gun: I remember my father saying "loaded gun scares one man; an empty gun scares two".

Don't regret it -

Did this study factor in suicides as part of it's numbers?

I often find that anti-gun studies factor in suicide as "gun violence"... which is very often misleading and almost straight out lying.