Tire Exceptions to Expectations
 

Throughout the years, I've purchased expensive premium tires that were suppose to be puncture resistant and were promised to last for long mileage, but didn't. Some of these so-called puncture-resistant tires had multiple flats within relatively short periods of time. They certainly weren't worth their expense.

OTOH, I've purchased less expensive tires, that were a mere fraction of the cost of the premium tires, but they seemingly lasted forever, with relatively few flats.

Have you ever experienced this before?

Statistical fluctuation. I'll go months without a flat but will sometimes get several flats in a week. It makes it difficult to compare tires without running many miles on a number of each to get enough data to average.

Not really what you are asking, but this year I have had 5 flats on Mich Krylions (40% of mileage), 1 flat on Conti GP4000S (40%) and 0 flats on Mich Pro3 Race (20%), which seems about the opposite of the rates I would expect.

As Looigi said, it's statistical fluctuation. You can't really draw any general conclusion wrt a specific tires unless you have more data. In another word, anecdotes are not evidence.

I'm not really asking for evidence per se. However, I really do want your opinion. What's your overall impression of some of the tires that you've purchased?

Sometimes, I think that certain batches of so-called puncture-resistant tires are below QC standards, but are sold nonetheless.

I think puncture rates have as much or more to do with the quality of tubes that I'm using. I went through a spree of flats after purchasing a batch of CST tubes. I eventually gave the last few away and purchase more michelins. Flats mysteriously vanished.

I can report that I have had tires that I was quick to dismiss.


With regard to "training" type tires I can say my experience has been:

The much taughted Vittoria Rubino Pro, I was completed underwhelmed and disappointed in. The only two positives I could say about them were that they were cheap, and that perhaps they would have worn well had I not taken them off the bike.

Maxxis Re-fuses seem to offer excellent traction and puncture resistance in a mid priced tire. But, they are not a fast roller and wear somewhat quickly (soft rubber?).

The Michelin Pro Optimums I have on the bike now are still to new to give any great endorsement to. But, so far, so good. Much better traction than the Rubino Pros and no flats so far (maybe 1500km). Although, they did suffer a sidewall cut within days of putting them on. It's right on a molding seam and I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it, squeezing their 26mm's through my brakes or the fact that it was raining quite a bit when they went on. But, I'm hapy with them so far.

But, tubes. Michelin airstops or Vittoria's in the correct width for your tires. Steer clear of cheap tubes in my experience.

+1

Now this, may truly be something to consider! :thumb:

I've never really given tube quality much of a second thought...

PS.

You'd think that a really worthwhile tire would dismiss any problem with a mediocre tube.

No flats on my Mich Pro3 Race either.

I rode through last winter on Pro 3's with zero issues. This year has not really even started and I have had two destroyed (the latest, killed by a sharp chunk of pavement below). I have switched to some Vittoria Rubinos.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...81095113_n.jpg

Personally, in terms of puncture resistance, of all the tires that I have accumulated significant mileage (>3000 miles), I like the Conti GP 4Seaons the best since I haven't had any puncture on these tire yet (I guess I just jinxed myself). I have similar number of flats (single digits) on Conti GP4000s and Vittoria Rubino Pros over the last a few years. Others I have used include Vittoria EVO Corsa and Pave as well as Hutchinson Fusion tubeless. I haven't had any flats on them but neither have I put a lot of miles in them. BTW, I use mostly Continental tubes.

I've actually had the same experiences as the above. Never flatted yet on my Pro3 Races on my road bike, well over a thousand miles since June on those. However I've flatted 6 or 7 times in the last 2 months on brand new Kenda Kwests in 700x40C on my cruiser.

I've found the same types of glass shards that go right through the Kendas and poke the tube flat, safely nestled in the rubber of the Pro3 without making it through. My theory is that it's the higher tire pressure in the road bike tires (110psi, vs 70psi in the cruiser) that keeps them from getting through. I use the same brand/model of cheap tubes in all my tires, too (SunLite), the correct size for each tire. You'd think the heavier, thicker commuter tires would resist flats much better, but that's DEFINITELY not the case for me... they seem to pick up every little shard of glass and send it straight through the tube.

How much time or how many miles do you have on your Mich Pro 3 Races?

Or, we might rephrase as, "No amount spent on the best tires can keep a cheap tube from giving up the ghost at the first opportunity." It is a composite structure after all, reliant upon each of it's components, each of which can be the weak link.

The issues that may exist with cheap tubes include but are not limited to poor joints at the valve stem, failures at the mold seam, inconsistant material thickness, low elasticity of the rubber.

I've also found that putting a 23c tube in 25mm-28mm tires may result in said tube being stretched a bit thin and increasing the likelihood of it flatting.

I'm noticing that high price does not always buy an all-around better tire. Buyers need to select from menu of features and benefits. light weight, supple construction, flat protection, low rolling resistance, good all-weather traction, good aerodynamics, moderate price: Pick your priorities but don't expect to have all positive features in one tire.

I'm finding that moderate levels of performance and price provide the best value and overall performance. I avoid pure ultra light tires, ultra flat resistant tires, ultra durable tires, ultra supple tires, etc... Moderation and balance are ideal for non-race usage.

Reading reviews at Wiggle and other online locations provide a great amount of user feedback. It might not help anyone buy the perfect tire, but it can help anyone avoid the wrong tire.

Right now my favorite tire is the Vittoria Voyager Hyper (AKA Randonneur Hyper). The tire is ultra smooth, fast rolling, good flat resistance, reasonable durability and ultra versatile. Now if it was available is a size that would fit my road bike, I would be all set.

Around 700 miles now.

I use those cheap 5 for $10 tubes from pricepoint and I rarely get flats. But if y'all enjoy paying as much for a tube as I do for 5, go right ahead.

We had a thread on tubes here not long ago. My opinion and IIRC the general opinion of the thread was that tubes don't puncture, tires do. Though IME crappy tubes will sometimes split on a seam or the valve will pull out, but that's rare.

IMO the worse the traction of the tire the longer it will wear and the less it will flat. The heavier the carcass, the higher the rolling resistance and the less likely it is to flat. All tires are a compromise. You can't get something for nothing.

Internet reviews are worthless, including the ones in this thread. They're just anecdotes. I've gone months with no flats and then had 3 in a week, same model tire. If you're down to the cords and it flats, well then.

Every user will have their own "sweet spot," the combination of features that suits them best. I've had good luck (!) with GP4000s, Ultremo DD, and Maxxis Re-Fuse.

You'll have fewer flats if, after every ride, you deflate the tires and go around them, squeezing with your thumbs, and picking out the stones and glass bits with the point of a knife. That's true. But don't dig out the casing threads. They're usually white.

I've also had good luck reinflating the tires then going around and forcing black polyurethane caulk into the little cuts that accumulate with the point of a knife. That keeps future glass and stones from lodging in them. I've tried using super glue for that, which works even better, but I think after a time the super glue acts like glass bits and causes flats.

I have about 1500 on my first set. I mostly ride Continentals, but when Michelin came out with the Pro4 series Chainlove had Krylions and Pro3 Race for ~$25 and I bought a bunch. I've mostly been training on the Krylions and some GP4000s that I had left from the previous year. I've mostly used the Pro3 Race for events and a few solo hill rides.

Yes, but intuitively speaking, you must have some notion as to which tires have generally served you well, and which ones have not...Right?

Therefore, it would appear that Michelin's Pro3 Races have faired well by comparison. Well that sounds noteworthy for certain!

Thus far there would appear to be much positive clamour about those Pro3 Races. Perhaps time will tell. I think I'm becoming somewhat optimistic about those Pro3 Races...

Damn! That's looks almost that catastrophic failure! However, I guess that would all depend upon how sharp the edges were on that pavement and how much force those tires encountered.

My faith in Pro3 Races surges on!

....I think...:innocent:

I would agree. In general, I use Continentals too and for the most part they have served me well. However, the absolute best tires that I ever had were some really cheap Kendas that I purchased many years ago, that just refused to die. Finally, the tread got so low that I was beginning to see the fabric and threads beneath it, so I replaced the Kendas with Continentals. Never have been able to find a decent Kenda tire after that one miraculous pair. However, I've had consistent performance overall with Continentals ever since replacing that first set of Kendas. That's especially with Continental GP4000's. My next set of tires will most likely be some version of Continental's Gatorskins.

That said, I have owned practically every tire brand under the sun, including Continentals.

Another well-served brand is the Panaracer. I once got a really good pair of those too! They lasted a very long time with only a few flats...

Hey there, Cali_Axela!

I guess you could safely say, that we have another advocate for the Michelin Pro3 Races! Those Pro3's are starting to look fairly impressive from my perspective. I think I might be becoming a convert for certain! :thumb:

However, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on your tire pressure theory. I'll have to wait for more corroborating evidence before confirmation. However, you have persuaded me to at least, lean towards that direction.

I must admit BigFred,

This tube theory has me intrigued for sure. It does indeed sound logical. However, I'm having difficulty wrapping my mind around the fact that millions of dollars go into the research and development of puncture-resistant-long-lasting tires, while very little research goes into the development of tire tubes. It's like nobody really cares that much about tire tubes. It's like, as long as the tube is adequately flexible and can hold air, it's good to go! That's it! There's nothing else to it, because the actual tire's duty, is to protect the tube. If the tire fails, the tube fails!

However, I'm still considering your tube theory, because you do put forth what I would regard, as a very intelligent argument...