asphalteric28

Is it best to feather your front brake only, rear brake only, or both brakes when cornering?

Is it best to use your front brake only, rear brake only, or both brakes when riding on wet or bad roads?

Is it safe to descend and corner on the hoods when riding below 30 kilometers (18 miles) an hour? I can descend and corner on both the hoods and the drops and even the tops at any speed but it feels most comfortable when going below 30 kilometers while descending and cornering to be on the hoods.

I'm new to the open road after being an avid track cyclist for over a year. My track bike had foot brakes so that explains all of my braking questions.

I've read many articles and watched many videos that say to do different things about braking techniques. I'm hoping to ask some experienced experts out there for safe braking techniques and the outcomes of what happens when you use certain brake combinations under certain conditions. I'd rather not experience for myself because I don't want to get seriously hurt early.

gamby

I'm far from a pro, but...

No issues cornering at speed in the hoods

Just like a car, you either brake or turn--pick one. Generally finish braking before turning in. Rear brake mid-turn (train braking) to scrub off more speed is a bit advanced, but you can get a feel for it. NEVER hit the front brake mid-turn.

Personally, I feather both brakes and if I'm not really flying, I'll just feather the front, because it does most of the work.

As a track cyclist, you probably have insane bikehandling skills to begin with, so all of this will quickly become second nature for you.

hamster

Front brake provides most of the stopping power. The harder you brake, the more stopping power comes from the front brake. For this reason, some will tell you to use front brake only.
However, if you're riding on a bad or a wet road, you don't want to brake too hard. Apply both brakes smoothly and gradually. Braking too hard or too suddenly can cause one of the wheels to lock, and then you'll crash. You particularly don't want to lock the front wheel when going downhill, because there's a risk of flying over the handlebars.

As long as I'm unsure of the road directly ahead (there's a risk that I might need to brake or turn, because of a car appearing out of a driveway, etc.), the hoods is the only place I'd be when descending, at any speed, 0 to 40 mph.

Homebrew01

Why not ? You're less likely to skid if you use the front brake in normal conditions.
However, if the road is wet, sandy or icy, better to have the rear wheel slide out than the front.

big john

As was said, it's best to do most of your braking before the turn, but you can use both brakes in a turn with a little care. Like a motorcycle, the bike will tend to straighten up when you brake hard while leaning. You can practice adjusting to this, and practicing all your techniques will allow them to become second nature.
As a fatty, I use both brakes hard when I really need to scrub off speed and I shift my weight way back. I also descend in the drops most of the time and weight the outside pedal in tight turns.

merlinextraligh

Actually this is no longer true in a car. Trail braking into a turn shifts weight forward, aiding turn in, and setting up the exit of the turn. Modern stablity management systems make trail braking a better option, with the ability to selectively apply braking force to individual wheels. I recently spent 2 days at the Porsche Sport driving school, working on trail braking on the track.

That said, it's generally a good idea to get most of your braking done on a bike before the turn, particularly if conditions are sketchy.

cyccommute 

It's hard to know where to start Each of the above posters is right and wrong...at the same time. gamby is right that it is best to brake hard before the corner but stuff happens and you occasionally have to make corrections in the corner. hamster is right that the front brake provides most of the deceleration but using only the front brake in most situations decreases your deceleration ability by about 20%. And Homebrew01 is wrong about you being less likely to skid if you use the front brake in dry conditions.

Let's start with braking in a straight line. hamster is correct that many people will tell you to use the front brake only. They would be wrong because they are misinterpreting the physics. In the physics of braking, the maximum amount of deceleration that you can possibly achieve on a bicycle is at the point where the bicycle is just about to spin around the front hub and smash your face into the ground. In other words, you are doing a nose wheelie and on the edge of disaster. Just because this is the maximum deceleration you can achieve, it's not the most desirable for obvious reasons.

Up to the point where the rear wheel leaves the ground, i.e. the rear wheel locks up and starts to skid, the rear wheel is contributing to the deceleration of the bike during braking. How much it contributes is dependent on a number of factors including how hard you are squeezing the brakes and, perhaps more importantly, your body position. If you are seated in a 'normal' position, the bike can develop about 0.5g of deceleration before throwing the rider over the bars. If you move your body back and down just a little (a couple of inches back and an inch down makes a huge difference), you can up that deceleration to 0.9g or roughly double the deceleration. Road bike riders tend not to do the body shift but satch a mountain biker brake and you'll see this body shift all the time. All of the gains in deceleration come from a center of gravity shift to put more force on the rear wheel which results in resistance to flipping the rider over the bars.

In a corner, things start to get trickier because you have different forces acting on the bike/rider system. You have a part of the system that wants to continue in a straight line of the corner and part that is pulling the bike around the corner (the tires). The mass of the bike and rider wanting to go off the corner in a straight line is balanced by the force of the tires pulling the bike around the corner. If you slam on the brakes in the middle of the corner, the tires, especially the rear one, can loose traction and the balance is upset. Now the mass of the rider and bike want to go flying off the corner in a straight line...not good!

The rear tire loses traction more readily because the weight of the rider is shifted towards the front of the bike during braking. In a corner it's harder, although not impossible, to shift the center of gravity rearward to maintain traction on the rear wheel. I shift my weight rearward on corners but I still have to be careful when applying the brakes. If the rear wheel does slide, it's not impossible to recover but you have to be very quick and know which way to shift your weight to reestablish the traction. It's more by 'feel' then by formula. Mountain bike riders do it all the time and a sliding rear wheel in a corner is no big thing.

In the end, I'd say apply brakes as needed but be more cognizant of how your are applying them in corners. You need a more gentle touch and some body english (also known as center of mass shifting) but you can brake in corners. I would also suggest that any road bike rider, get a mountain bike and learn how to ride it off-road. You'll learn more about bicycle handling in one afternoon off-road then you can learn in 30 years on road. Once you've learned how to handle surfaces that vary as widely as off-road surfaces, a hard road surface is simple.

Looigi

Yep. Hit the brakes hard while vertical and ease off as you lean leaving no brakes at max lean. The harder you brake, the more work the front brake does in proportion, to the point where at max braking the rear brakes do nothing.

ericm979

You have more control and better braking descending with your hands on the drops so you should use that position when you want more control and better braking. That could be at a low speed if you're on a steep technical descent or there's debris on the road.

hamster

Huh? Is this a typo? There's zero control over braking with your hands on the drops. You simply can't reach the brakes unless you are a mutant with extra-large fingers.

BillyD

Here we go.

ericm979

There's no need to get bent out of shape; you can simply disagree with me.

It sounds like your brake levers or bars are set up wrong. You may need to adjust the reach to the lever (sram has an adjuster, for shimano you can buy shims from Specialized). Some people set the free play on their brakes too tight so the lever engages when it's too far away from the bar. If the levers are mounted too high on the bar then it will be a longer reach to the levers. Bar shape affects lever reach too. I want the levers set up so I can reach them and so my braking finger(s) are bent about 45-60 degrees when the brakes are in their effective zone.

Coming from a motorcycle racing and trials background I'm picky about brake lever set up. In racing I didn't use the rear at all and in trials competition you need very sentitive control on the brake because speeds are so low. I haven't had any problem setting up my Shimano and Sram bikes properly, and I have normal length fingers for a 6' tall male. I did crank the Sram lever adjuster most of the way in.

If you were local I'd offer to help you set your brakes up.

merlinextraligh

^^^ I think when Eric says "in the drops" he means with your hands where some people call "the hooks", not at the end of the bars by the bar ends, which you appear to be thinking of.

hamster

https://i47.tinypic.com/2qlhg5u.jpg

I can sorta hook my middle finger around the lever, but I wouldn't call this "control". Also, I'm not sure if things would get substantially better even if I adjusted the lever inward.

cyccommute 

Braking from the 'hooks' as merllinextraligh correctly states does offer a little more control than from the hoods but only modestly. The reason is that you can brake harder from this position because you've lowered the center of gravity. However if you don't push back on the saddle, the center of gravity is forward thus lightening the force on the rear wheel. It's better than braking from the hoods while seated on the saddle but not quite as good as pushed back over the rear wheel. Braking from the hooks and pushing back behind the saddle would provide the best center of gravity position to give optimal deceleration.

JamieElenbaas

There must be some failure to communicate here.

In the hoods you cannot apply as much pressure on properly positioned and adjusted brake levers and you can when your hands are in the drops.

Secondly, in the drops, you certainly can apply more upper body strength to keep your weight aft and maximize braking (minimize endo tenancy) than you can in the hoods.

Hamster, if you truly believe that a fast descent is better done on the hoods than in the drops, please don't ride near me! ;-)

hamster

What is "better"? I do not doubt that drops are faster than hoods and aero bars are faster than drops.

Drops give you a better angle, but 4 fingers are better than 1.5 fingers.

Now, if you could somehow configure the levers to bring the tip of the brake lever within 2 inches from the drops ... then I might agree with you.

Fishmonger

I have a similar question: on my daily commute there's a fairly steep hill with a right curve at the bottom, and there are small pebbles on the road at that curve.

I sometimes will feather my front wheel, just because I've heart that braking helps you stick to the road and I don't want a rock to dump me (potentially not just into traffic, but on a blind corner with traffic behind me).

Giving up the speed from braking before the turn is something I always do, but it is painfully hard to do, with a long straight right after and then a monster climb--I hate giving up any momentum.

Help!

ericm979

That's with the levers all the way out, no brakes on, right? It's a longer reach than I prefer. Getting the levers closer to the bar would make it easier to apply the brakes. Like you say you're just barely hooking a finger around the lever. What's it like with the brakes applied (with the typical force you'd use to brake)?

ericm979

In that case I'd stay off the brakes. Weight transfer from braking can help traction in some situations but I don't think that's one of them. And in any case there's not much weight transfer if you're not braking hard.

hamster

This is the lever all the way in: https://i46.tinypic.com/2a95kj4.jpg https://i49.tinypic.com/54y877.jpg

ericm979

That's about where I'd have the starting position. Of course it's a personal preference.

Here's a thread on shortening the reach on Campy levers: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/cam...rs-248204.html

You can simulate what it'd be like for purposes of garage testing by putting a piece of rubber between the lever and housing to move the starting position closer, and adjusting the brake cable to set the working position. Obviously you want to make sure that the lever won't bottom out and contact the bar under normal braking, plus a small safety factor. For me if it doesn't bottom out on the bar when I squeeze really hard in the garage like I'd do to test a new brake cable install, it's enough. I do pay attention to my brakes and adjust them when they need it.

The other thing that helps some brake systems is reducing the brake spring force and friction. Shimano brakes have an adjustment for spring tension (two positons, it comes in the stiffer one). On my EE brakes I asked the manufacturer for the lighter springs he shipped with earlier models. They're more than stiff enough for cable return with the springs that are also in the Red levers and reduce lever effort. With that and some lever adjustments I got the brake effort light enough that I can do really long technical descents with one finger braking. I was having nerve problems in my left hand from using two fingers on long descents.

hamster

I guess I'll tweak it and see what happens.

The other problem is that, to me, the lever is just too high. Even if I shorten the reach, I'd only be able to wrap two fingers around the lever in a "natural" grip position. Would you recommend rotating the handlebars slightly downward?

robbyville

Not to hijack the thread but is technique any different when using carbon rims and appropriate pads?

asphalteric28

Which brakes or brake are best to feather while cornering when neccessary? How about on wet or bad roads? Which brake or brakes are best to use then?