Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

What waterproof jacket do you use?

Notices
Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

What waterproof jacket do you use?

Old 12-03-12, 11:51 AM
  #51  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. Fly View Post
Bear in mind that I'm a "plainclothes" commuter so all these are outerwear layered over my normal office uniform so my need for ventilation is likely higher than most; I also live in the SF bay area, where it only rains in winter when the temperature is a reasonable 40-50F.
I don't think there's anything that can meet this need -- the problem is that office clothes are by themselves too heavy so you'll roast.

As you mention, capes have limitations. But for short commutes and the right circumstances, I can see them working.
banerjek is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 05:31 PM
  #52  
Grambo
Senior Member
 
Grambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.E. Chester County PA
Posts: 602

Bikes: IF Ti Crown Jewel, Moots Mooto X RSL 29er, Fat Chance Yo Eddy, Lynskey Pro Cross

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
What about the lower body?? Any breathable Gore Tex cycling tights / pants (w/o chamois) to wear over cycling shorts??

Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
I think the GoreTex Active stuff is light enough for cycling -- one of my go to jackets is the Gore Oxygen GT AS. Disclaimer: I'm a product tester for which I receive consideration, so you may want to take my words with a grain of salt. There's another jacket that's lighter and better still, but it's not available yet. Before the Active line (also marketed as Active Shell) came out, I took the position that nothing was light enough and that you were better off getting wet. I've owned jackets throughout the Gore-Tex line for years. I have never found any PacLite, Performance Shell, or Pro Shell jackets that I'd recommend for cycling.

Waterproof/breathable jackets are not magic. If you'd sweat in a windbreaker when it's dry, you'll sweat in one of these things regardless of the weather. So you can't hammer and stay dry at 55F even if it would work fine at a lollygagging pace.

So in a classic BF sense, whether one of these would work for you depends on how, where, and under what conditions you ride.
Grambo is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 06:05 PM
  #53  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Grambo View Post
What about the lower body?? Any breathable Gore Tex cycling tights / pants (w/o chamois) to wear over cycling shorts??
I own Gore Bike Wear Fusion 2.0 GT pants which I use for commuting. They are decent for this purpose and I think they'd be outright great for a century in cold stormy weather. They cost a bit over $200 which isn't that bad for this sort of thing. I'd describe them as passable which is not how I'd describe any of the other waterproof pants I've tried.

Warning: These pants used to be done in PacLite rather than Active Shell and there are still a lot of the former on the market. I do not recommend the PacLite stuff. Specific things I like about the pants I have is that they're form fitting (my shorts size is men's small, but I was a medium in these), and they are great for rain in the lower 40's and below. The bottoms are actually big enough to go over booties which I don't like because when you use the velcro to bring them close to your calves, you wind up with multiple layers (i.e. less breathing). I think they also would have benefited from a pit zip near the thigh that could be opened up when it was dry.
banerjek is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 06:19 PM
  #54  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
If this wasn't complete BS then you wouldn't be a goretex product tester or bother with any waterproof breathable.
Actually, the bulk of my gore-tex gear is for skiing (most recently used yesterday). I swear by my Pro Shell stuff for backcountry, snow camping, and lift served days.



I'll admit that the testing process has affected my opinions and not just because they're nice to me. For years, I took the position that it's easier to be warm and wet because none of the jackets were light enough. In 33 rain, neoprene is great stuff -- you can be out for hours. I've told people a million times that there is nothing more futile than struggling against inevitability and that if you spend much time in the rain, it's delusional to think you won't get wet.

The problem is that conditions change a lot out here so you get warm, dry, cold, and wet in the same ride. So if you bring that neoprene and the temp goes up to 50, you absolutely barbeque. If it's dry, the stuff is too heavy until you get close to the freezing mark, but if it's wet, you'll really want it somewhere in the 40's. I don't even know how many jackets I've tried, but every now and then, I encounter one that I think is usable. These things allow you to wear and carry less and that's more fun.

So while being wet is no big deal, not being wet is even better.
banerjek is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 08:00 PM
  #55  
Grambo
Senior Member
 
Grambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.E. Chester County PA
Posts: 602

Bikes: IF Ti Crown Jewel, Moots Mooto X RSL 29er, Fat Chance Yo Eddy, Lynskey Pro Cross

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanks !! Appreciate the feedback. I've know for a long time that even in very adverse conditions if you're dressed right and comfortable you can still really enjoy the outdoors. I have a 20 yr. old North Face Gore Tex Thinsulate jacket that I still use to this day (for mtb riding when it drops into the low 20's and below) so I really don't have any issues spending a bit more for clothing that does what it is suppose to do and allows me to ride in relative comfort when it is cold or wet. I will check into the pants you mentioned.

Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
Actually, the bulk of my gore-tex gear is for skiing (most recently used yesterday). I swear by my Pro Shell stuff for backcountry, snow camping, and lift served days.



I'll admit that the testing process has affected my opinions and not just because they're nice to me. For years, I took the position that it's easier to be warm and wet because none of the jackets were light enough. In 33 rain, neoprene is great stuff -- you can be out for hours. I've told people a million times that there is nothing more futile than struggling against inevitability and that if you spend much time in the rain, it's delusional to think you won't get wet.

The problem is that conditions change a lot out here so you get warm, dry, cold, and wet in the same ride. So if you bring that neoprene and the temp goes up to 50, you absolutely barbeque. If it's dry, the stuff is too heavy until you get close to the freezing mark, but if it's wet, you'll really want it somewhere in the 40's. I don't even know how many jackets I've tried, but every now and then, I encounter one that I think is usable. These things allow you to wear and carry less and that's more fun.

So while being wet is no big deal, not being wet is even better.
Grambo is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 08:36 PM
  #56  
surreycrv 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Has the animal layer been mentioned yet? 2 or 3 layers of the wool of your choice (merino is great as is lambs wool) with deal with moisture from within AND from without. Even if you hit saturation point, the amazing effect of being in a forced air dryer will make almost all that water just disappear. Oh, and those 2 or more layers also work tremendously as a wind block (the holes in the weaves never really line up)

last point, even fully saturated you still remain warm.
surreycrv is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 09:14 PM
  #57  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Grambo View Post
I will check into the pants you mentioned.
If you decide to get them, make sure you get the new version, not the old one. They will look identical to the eye. Since they are a relatively new product, I can't speak to their longevity.
banerjek is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 11:11 PM
  #58  
ben8jam
Title User Customized
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 78

Bikes: 2010 Specialized Allez Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Glad to hear people seem to like the PI Elite (or convertible) jacket-- I live in LA where we usually have great weather, but don't want to skip out on cold/wet days...
ben8jam is offline  
Old 12-03-12, 11:18 PM
  #59  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I've never had any success with waterproof/resistant clothing for aerobic activity. Not that I'm some cycling/running animal, but even mild efforts cause me to sweat so much that I'm saturated with sweat after 20 mins, making 'staying dry' a ridiculous concept.

I'd still consider wearing water-resistant outers in subfreezing temps, but mainly to trap body heat on descents and not freezing solid on the outside as well. Above freezing temps, I find no benefit in wearing waterresistant stuff - I'm soaked after 20 minutes regardless.
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 10:08 AM
  #60  
bikerjp
Beer >> Sanity
 
bikerjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,449

Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
I've never had any success with waterproof/resistant clothing for aerobic activity.
I've been impressed with my eVent jacket. I don't use it for cycling, but it's been great for snowshoeing. I work up a good sweat snowshoeing and have remained more or less dry and never uncomfortable.
bikerjp is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 10:12 AM
  #61  
bikerjp
Beer >> Sanity
 
bikerjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,449

Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
Actually, the bulk of my gore-tex gear is for skiing (most recently used yesterday). I swear by my Pro Shell stuff for backcountry, snow camping, and lift served days.

Is that a recent pic? Nice snow. It's bone dry around here. We still have forest fires burning
bikerjp is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 10:24 AM
  #62  
nhluhr
John Wayne Toilet Paper
 
nhluhr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Roanoke
Posts: 1,952

Bikes: BH carbon, Ritchey steel, Kona aluminum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Waterproof Breathable is one of the most widely misunderstood technologies in all of outerwear. In the PNW, we learn some of these lessons because if we don't, we never get to play outside. Oftentimes, it is better to accept being wet as long as you can stay warm. I tend to use softshells with a water repellent surface in typical NW rain. If it's raining hard enough and you really want to stay dryer, a waterproof breathable fabric can help, but only a little. Waterproof is great, but if it's not breathable, your interior will become instantly wet. The best way to get rid of moisture is to simply flush it out with ventilation, but ventilation is a problem in constant rain where it may find its way into the vents. Barring that, the breathability of the fabric is important. Unfortunately, no breathable fabric can truly equal venting, but if you can moderate your effort and reduce perspiration, you can stay relatively comfortable.

Myth1 - All of them are the same basic product and just vary the balance between waterproofness and breathability.
Fact: There are many extremely different approaches to making a jacket waterproof and breathable. The most widely known is Gore Tex, but it comes with some major downsides, the biggest of which is the polyurethane backing required to protect the PTFE membrane from skin oil and abrasion. The most common type though doesn't even use a PTFE membrane.

Myth2 - Your waterproof jacket is not waterproof.
Fact: Barring some manufacturers, pretty much any jacket claiming to be waterproof is actually waterproof inasmuch as it will NOT allow water to enter. Thing is, all these jackets depend on a temperature and humidity gradient to drive moisture through the membrane either in vapor or solid state diffusion. Fabrics that require solid state diffusion through a PU layer (such as gore tex) actually do not really breathe at all. They require the water to first condense on the inside of the fabric and then diffuse through the PU where it can once again vaporize and pass through the PTFE membrane. In active rain, a gore tex jacket will always feel wet on the inside from your own vapor. Some W/B fabrics, like eVent, do not have protective membrane inside (the mfg found a way around the oil-contamination problem and solved durability with a protective wicking fabric bonded to the PTFE) and thus will breathe much faster and not require the inner fabric to actually be wetted before it breathes. Another dependency that ALL waterproof breathable fabrics have is the requirement for a 'dry' outer surface fabric before water can evaporate. This is why all surface fabrics must be treated with a durable water repellent finish to force any rain to bead off instead of actually wetting the outer fabric. Once the DWR is eventually overcome (or when it wears out or is rendered ineffective through oil/dirt contamination), the fabric wets out and breathability is rendered almost null. You need to keep your W/B fabrics in good condition and regularly treat them with DWR refresher products, but all these measures are to keep the breathability and outer beading working at their best function. The jacket is still technically waterproof but tragically has become a vapor cave in which you'll suffer.

Summary: During moderate to higher effort bicycling in the rain, you're going to get wet. You can reduce it but its better to just determine what level of wetness you can accept and dress warmly enough to prevent suffering once wet, while not exacerbating the wetness with excess sweating.

Last edited by nhluhr; 12-04-12 at 10:27 AM.
nhluhr is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 10:48 AM
  #63  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
Is that a recent pic? Nice snow. It's bone dry around here. We still have forest fires burning
Taken the day before yesterday. But this season has been total crap snow wise. We've been getting the precipitation, but it's been way too warm so it's constantly melting. We'll get more rain on top of the snow today. I guess the good news is that the base is really firm....

On the subject of waterproof/breathable and what you can expect, you gotta think about this logically. Air blowing directly on you (i.e. no garment) will allow maximum breathing, but at some point, you'll overwhelm even what comes directly off your skin. Today it was 55 with light rain when I came into work, and being the gore-tex shill that I am, you know what I wore? Just shorts and a short sleeve jersey (i.e. though I packed my jacket just in case). I knew I'd be riding hard and that there was no way I wouldn't be drenched with sweat. And I was a little damp from sweat as well as the rain. Had I worn even the lightest windbreaker, I would have just been drenched in sweat.

It would be possible to ride in such weather and stay dry, but you really need to ramp down the effort. Basic rule is that the colder it is, the harder you can ride and the better this stuff works. If it must rain, I prefer that it's 40F or cooler. Seriously. On a bike, that's very comfortable in this type of gear and those conditions at sea level mean that there will be lots of snow at elevation.
banerjek is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 10:51 AM
  #64  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 17,646

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3017 Post(s)
Liked 936 Times in 709 Posts
Here's a slightly different way to look at it. In dry weather we wear clothing with no waterproof layer over it. Sometimes very little clothing, sometimes more, depending on temperature. The problem is always getting rid of the heat. Our response to body heating is to sweat. In the dry, wind evaporates the sweat and cools us.

In the rain, we interpose a wind or waterproof layer. This almost eliminates the ability of the wind to cool us. Hence we can tolerate very little clothing under the waterproof. We are relying on the wind evaporating water off the outside of the waterproof and some slight effect of the lower temperature of the waterproof layer itself. However, the temperature difference doesn't carry away anything like the heat carried away by evaporating water. Obviously in the rain, it's pretty hard to evaporate much water off the outside of the waterproof layer. Thus we overheat if we try to ride hard. We simply can't get rid of the heat. At ordinary rainy temperatures we can wear just one thin layer under the waterproof and still overheat.

So what's to be done? Simple - let the water in. Wear non-waterproof clothing that admits water to cool the skin, just like evaporating sweat does in the dry. It's a matter of experience in choosing the correct type and thickness of garments under the windproof, but not waterproof layer. It's a little like wearing a wetsuit. Between rain showers, we can unzip and let the wind in to cool us, so all our layers except the base need to have zippers. If it's warm enough, we may choose not to wear a windproof layer at all.
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 11:02 AM
  #65  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,128
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15208 Post(s)
Liked 6,379 Times in 3,616 Posts
Arc'teryx Accelero



I've had one for two or three years, it looks like the day I bought it. Thought I lost it a while ago, it wasn't anywhere it should be, and it seemed like I must have set it on the trunk of my car at the end of a long hike and driven away. So I immediately went to the store and bought a new one. And then the older one I had turned up.

This isn't waterproof, but it's highly water resistant. If you can shake the beads off every five or ten minutes, you can stay dry for an hour or more in constant rain.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 02:39 PM
  #66  
bikerjp
Beer >> Sanity
 
bikerjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,449

Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
Taken the day before yesterday. But this season has been total crap snow wise. We've been getting the precipitation, but it's been way too warm so it's constantly melting. We'll get more rain on top of the snow today. I guess the good news is that the base is really firm....
Well, it could be worse. This is our snow...



Rocky Mountain National Park on Dec 2, 2012

Source: https://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...-area-but-high

On the plus side, 60 degree temps in Dec makes for nice riding.
bikerjp is offline  
Old 12-04-12, 06:47 PM
  #67  
Jandro 
Senior Member
 
Jandro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Either:

Rapha rain jacket - as waterproof as it gets.
or
Rapha classic softshell - water resistant unless it's absolutely pouring and I'm sitting in it for > 30 minutes. Also fantastic for temps between 25 -> 50*F. The pit zips and breathability of the fabric help greatly as temps rise.
__________________
Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.
Jandro is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
chephy
General Cycling Discussion
34
04-06-18 06:11 PM
corrado33
Commuting
33
04-04-17 09:08 AM
nightfly
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
23
06-28-13 07:24 AM
DRietz
Road Cycling
11
12-08-10 04:11 PM
no1mad
Commuting
12
12-07-10 07:13 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.