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Ultegra vs 2012 Red, weight vs performance, bang for the buck?

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Ultegra vs 2012 Red, weight vs performance, bang for the buck?

Old 12-26-12, 11:56 AM
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Dancing Skeleton
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Ultegra vs 2012 Red, weight vs performance, bang for the buck?

I'm in the process of buying a Domane 6 Project One.

I'm debating on the drivetrain, 2012 Red vs. Ultegra 6700. I'd like to keep the weight under 16 lbs (with cages, pedals etc.), which will be easy with Red (likely under 15 lbs.), and won't happen with Ultegra (it will be just over 16 lbs), Red is between 600 & 700 grams lighter than Ultegra
I know that Ultegra will shift very smoothly, especially up front. I haven't been able to try 2012 Red, but from what I've read, it's very smooth. I have Force on my Madone, and after some initial difficulties with a defective FD, performance has been great for 5000+ miles. I know that Ultegra brakes are really good as well, and probably slightly better than Red.
Red is $1200 more than Ultegra.
The Ultegra is a little less conspicuous than the Red, and the style of the bike is very understated.
I find Sram hoods a little more comfortable than Shimano.
It's not a situation where I will buy better wheels with the $1200, the overall money is not a big factor, but bang for the buck is.

Does anyone have experiences with both groups?
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Old 12-26-12, 12:03 PM
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For me it's all about shifting preference. I like how SRAM shifts better than Shimano personally. SRAM is lighter too, but both are excellent components. Go ride something with both groupos and pick the one you like better. I would choose feel over weight any day.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:06 PM
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If you are serious about training, Ultegra with a Powertap would be the same price and more useful. I made this same decision a while back.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jrobe View Post
If you are serious about training, Ultegra with a Powertap would be the same price and more useful. I made this same decision a while back.
or Force w/a power meter. Since Force is the SRAM equivalent to Ultegra
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Old 12-26-12, 12:20 PM
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Double tap blows.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Double tap blows.
Originally Posted by Elduderino2412 View Post
or Force w/a power meter. Since Force is the SRAM equivalent to Ultegra
If I go with Red, I'm not spending the difference on anything else.

Force, especially 2013, may be a possibility (I've got 2011 Force on my Madone, I was just looking for something different on the Domane).

I don't want a powermeter, and I like Double-Tap.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:35 PM
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if you like double tap and you think the hoods on sram are more comfortable---then your decision between Sram and Shimano should be easy. Now it is just a matter of which level of sram.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:36 PM
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The LBS should let you ride bikes with both.

Since you like Force you'll like Red. You can always get different brakes. Sram uses the old Shimano brake cable pull so you can't use new Shimano brakes but you could use a set of 7800 brakes which are very good and can be as light as 2011 Red brakes with some tuning. Or you can get EE brakes.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Double tap blows.
The designers of Double Tap, deserve a double tap head shot.

SRAM is GARBAGE.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
The designers of Double Tap, deserve a double tap head shot.

SRAM is GARBAGE.
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Double tap blows.

Haters need not reply
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Old 12-26-12, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dancing Skeleton View Post
Haters need not reply
I only hate SRAM because their products suck.

Feel free to buy whatever crap components you want, but if you want some good advice, buy Shimano.
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Old 12-26-12, 01:12 PM
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Forum-goers, please keep in mind that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so please do not go around telling others that they can't express their opinions because they 'hate' certain companies.

Thanks, and have a good holiday.
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Old 12-26-12, 01:20 PM
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$hitmano or Scam, your choice.


kidding, you may not like doubletap but I do, And Sram ergonomics are miles ahead of shimano IMO. IMO. IMO.

id say force.
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Old 12-26-12, 01:36 PM
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Psycho thread. Any Bushmasters out there?
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Old 12-26-12, 01:40 PM
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Bushmasters blow.

I only use Armalite.
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Old 12-26-12, 02:10 PM
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The problem with Ultegra 6700 is the shifter ergonomics.
They corrected it with Di2 Ultegra/DA and DA9000 mechanical (meaning, they went back to the 6600 hood shape.)

Otherwise, the 6700 group is really nice. Nice stiff cranks and chainrings, good shifting and brakes.
The lever ergonomics are the only unfortunate flaw- but you use it all the time so it's a large demerit of the group.

If you like sram, go for Red or wait for the new Ultegra whenever it comes out.
I prefer the shifting and overall package of Shimano but you already have a Force bike so it makes sense to stay with Sram.
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Old 12-26-12, 02:18 PM
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I think you'll find that free advice is worth just about what you paid for it, particularly when there no specifics referenced. That said, I'd suggest trying both if at all possible and making your own choice. FWIW (see the above ) the weight difference isn't that big an issue.
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Old 12-26-12, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
The problem with Ultegra 6700 is the shifter ergonomics.
They corrected it with Di2 Ultegra/DA and DA9000 mechanical (meaning, they went back to the 6600 hood shape.)

Otherwise, the 6700 group is really nice. Nice stiff cranks and chainrings, good shifting and brakes.
The lever ergonomics are the only unfortunate flaw- but you use it all the time so it's a large demerit of the group.

If you like sram, go for Red or wait for the new Ultegra whenever it comes out.
I prefer the shifting and overall package of Shimano but you already have a Force bike so it makes sense to stay with Sram.
Would say most don't know what you wrote...but you nailed it.
Best groupset for the $$. It isn't Ultegra 6700 or similar DA7900 or Red...its 10s Campy.
OP..if you have to choose between Shimano and Sram...either DA9000 or 2013 Red with revised ergos.
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Old 12-26-12, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
I only hate SRAM because their products suck.

Feel free to buy whatever crap components you want, but if you want some good advice, buy Shimano.
One of the guys in my bike club that works at a bike shop tells me that he sees a lot more product failures with SRAM than either Shimano or Campy. However, another guy in the same bike club that sits on the board with me owns a bike shop and he loves SRAM.
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Old 12-26-12, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Double tap blows.
Double tab rooolz

Now to actually contribute to the thread ....

Originally Posted by AMFJ View Post
if you like double tap and you think the hoods on sram are more comfortable---then your decision between Sram and Shimano should be easy. Now it is just a matter of which level of sram.
This exactly. To me, the considerations in priority order are: ergonomics, shifting method, price point, weight.

If you like the shifting and erfonomics of the Sram, why would you second guess it? Then choose the pricepoint you want in that line.

I have both Ultega and Sram (2010 red), and if you said I'd have to stick with one or the other, I'd be fine with whichever you chose for me. But if I had the choice, I'd choose the Sram just because it really is much more comfortable on the hoods for me, is much easier for me to shift from the drops, and I happen to like the doubletap a little better once I got used to it. The weight is an added benefit, but if I couldn't afford the Red, I would have chosen the Force which would have probably mitigated the weight difference quite a bit.

Last edited by Camilo; 12-26-12 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 12-26-12, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Would say most don't know what you wrote...but you nailed it.
Best groupset for the $$. It isn't Ultegra 6700 or similar DA7900 or Red...its 10s Campy.
OP..if you have to choose between Shimano and Sram...either DA9000 or 2013 Red with revised ergos.
I had been planning to upgrade my Campy triple to Campy 11 speed but have decided that my 10 speed triple just works so well, why replace it. However, I would like to replace the left crank arm which has been beaten up by rocks and debris. I have heard that any Campy 10 speed left crank arm for a square bottom bracket will work. Other than Ebay, I don't know of any source for small Campy parts. Any ideas?
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Old 12-26-12, 06:57 PM
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Bang for the buck... campagnolo athena 11

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Old 12-26-12, 07:01 PM
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It's your bike, get the one you like.

Although, if you're looking at Ultegra, see how much cheaper you can get things if you can go with 5700 shifters. I have a bike with 5700 shifters, and a bike with 6700 shifters, and I don't think the 6700s are any better. The 6700 shifters MIGHT be a bit lighter, but they don't feel any different and the shifting is the same on both (6700 FD and 7800 RD on both bikes).

I'd love to run Campy, but shifting in the drops while in a sprint is a problem - my too-small hands make it really hard for me to get to the levers while in the drops and standing on the pedals.
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Old 12-26-12, 07:01 PM
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You can use any 10 speed crankset with campagnolo athena, maybe the same with shimano but with them who knows... you never knows.

As for the group you can go low cost and get the brifters, rd and cassette and ready to go. Campagnolo non as many other manufacturers will shift in the front using any 10 speed FD. Or if you want to upgrade little by little and you have shimano or campy 10 stuff, just get the 11 brifters and then get a jtek, the thing will shift 10 speed like butter. Im running a set up like this already, the only 11 component i have are the brifters and the cranks I got like a year ago, fd and rd are 10 speed together with the cassette.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Carbon Unit View Post
I had been planning to upgrade my Campy triple to Campy 11 speed but have decided that my 10 speed triple just works so well, why replace it. However, I would like to replace the left crank arm which has been beaten up by rocks and debris. I have heard that any Campy 10 speed left crank arm for a square bottom bracket will work. Other than Ebay, I don't know of any source for small Campy parts. Any ideas?
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Old 12-26-12, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Double tap blows.
I take this as a plus.
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