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Can't stay in the aero position.

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Can't stay in the aero position.

Old 12-31-12, 01:32 PM
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b2run
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Can't stay in the aero position.

Greetings. I started biking last spring with my 25 year old 10 speed. I bought a KHS Flite in late summer and did one race. I want to work on it for the winter and get more competitive so I have my bike on a trainer and am working on my form. I can't seem to stay in the aero position for long. I have to go up on my handle bars and/or go down into the racing position. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-31-12, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by b2run View Post
Greetings. I started biking last spring with my 25 year old 10 speed. I bought a KHS Flite in late summer and did one race. I want to work on it for the winter and get more competitive so I have my bike on a trainer and am working on my form. I can't seem to stay in the aero position for long. I have to go up on my handle bars and/or go down into the racing position. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Have you been professionally fit? Can you touch your toes? If you aren't comfortable aero you will be faster comfortable upright but a good fit will allow you to get aero depending on body
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Old 12-31-12, 02:46 PM
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With a proper fit, it also takes conditioning. It's a different position that engages muscles differently. You have to practice/train riding in the drops going for longer than is comfortable and over time, incrementally increase the time you stay in the drops. Motivation helps too. Do group rides where you can barely hang on and you'll find yourself spending more time in the drops.
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Old 12-31-12, 02:47 PM
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As Chemist said, fit is very important. Make sure of that first.

But even then, it takes some time for you body to get used to a good racing position. It may be you need to start higher (angled stem or a few mm of spacer) and gradually lower your bars as you gain fitness and flexibility. Another thing you could do is work the position in on intervals. As you get more used to it, make the aero intervals longer.

And depending on age and body shape, you may not ever get comfortable in that position long term. That is one of the things that not everyone has in them.
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Old 12-31-12, 02:57 PM
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It would help to list your limiters, i.e. "my neck gets too sore" or "I can't breathe" etc. A picture would be helpful too.

All while noting that fitting someone in person is much better than when random internet people tell you what you should do
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Old 12-31-12, 03:12 PM
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Fit is important, but don't be under any illusion that you should be magically discomfort free on long rides, especially on the trainer when in aero position. It takes time in the saddle to acclimate to it even with a perfect fit.
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Old 12-31-12, 04:06 PM
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I'm pretty fit. I go 45 min on the bike no problem. My legs are the main problem but it does feel uncomfortable staying bent over like that. I was fit to the bike at the bike shop when I bought it but I bought the aerobars since then. I've tried to fit myself to the bike using common methods but as I said, I'm new to biking so I don't know if it's perfect. THECHEMIST - I'm not terribly flexible. I've never been able to touch my toes.

I really appreciate your suggestions. I'm in a small town where there's not much expert advice to be had.
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Old 12-31-12, 04:07 PM
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For me I find that holding a low position is much easier and comfortable when the effort level is high. That is for drops though, didn't realize that you are referring to aero bars.
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Old 12-31-12, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by b2run View Post
I'm pretty fit. I go 45 min on the bike no problem. My legs are the main problem but it does feel uncomfortable staying bent over like that. I was fit to the bike at the bike shop when I bought it but I bought the aerobars since then. I've tried to fit myself to the bike using common methods but as I said, I'm new to biking so I don't know if it's perfect. THECHEMIST - I'm not terribly flexible. I've never been able to touch my toes.

I really appreciate your suggestions. I'm in a small town where there's not much expert advice to be had.
Are you using clip on aerobars on a standard road bike? Normally, a TT bike with aerobars has the seat moved forward considerably relative to a normal road bike position. What type of races do you plan on doing?
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Old 12-31-12, 05:19 PM
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A competent fitter will evaluate your fitness, flexibility, and personal body dimensions to help you find the right fit. It's worth the money.
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Old 12-31-12, 05:38 PM
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Try and find someone in your area that does BG Fits. They will perform a fully physical evaluation of your body and fit the bike according to what your body calls for. Too many people in the past fit a bike without knowing the variables. A person with no hamstring or hip flexibility limitations is probably going to be able to run a lower bar setup than someone with limited range of movement (such as myself). With someone like me, and it sounds like yourself as well, I need my bar drop very small. To go a touch more in depth, my range of movement for my hip flexibility is right at 110 degrees. If I setup my bars really low and decide to get into my drops, I could end up with a hip angle at or over my 110 degree limit. Muscles don't like to work at their ROM limits. With some fitters they'll ask you if you want to be a racer, of course you'll say yes, then they'll slam your stem and tell you your Wiggins. There's no way to properly fit someone without doing a physical evaluation of the person. Hope that helps.
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Old 12-31-12, 06:37 PM
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Unless you're going to race, there's probably no need to worry about this. It makes more sense to fit the bike to your body than to force yourself into a position pro cyclists achieve only with years of effort (plus about 8 percent body fat, six hours a day on the bike and massage on call), and that offers minimal advantages in ordinary riding. Get comfortable first, then if you insist on looking cool, gradually force yourself into the Peloton Contortion position through the appropriate adjustments.
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Old 12-31-12, 09:21 PM
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Thanks to all. I'm going to be doing triathlons and duathlons. I'll try and find a professional fitter although I'm kind of in the bush out here so I'm not sure where the closest one is.
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Old 12-31-12, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Dog View Post
Unless you're going to race, there's probably no need to worry about this. It makes more sense to fit the bike to your body than to force yourself into a position pro cyclists achieve only with years of effort (plus about 8 percent body fat, six hours a day on the bike and massage on call), and that offers minimal advantages in ordinary riding. Get comfortable first, then if you insist on looking cool, gradually force yourself into the Peloton Contortion position through the appropriate adjustments.
I mean, he did say he had already entered one race, right there in the original post. But you were too busy loading up your anti athletic nonsense to notice that, right?
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Old 12-31-12, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Are you using clip on aerobars on a standard road bike? Normally, a TT bike with aerobars has the seat moved forward considerably relative to a normal road bike position. What type of races do you plan on doing?
+1
OP, you mention being fit/positioned by the shop, when you bought the bike. That fit was done for a 'road' position, not for an aero TT position.
As GregF83 notes, its really difficult to provide good 'fit' suggestions on the internet. There is some good info on the web regarding TT aero positioning, but know that once you make those adjustments, using the same adjustments for just 'road' riding on the normal road bars will not be a good way to go.

Besides getting to that aero position, having your body working at its optimum is as, if not more important.

How many miles (or hours...) have you ridden since your re-entry?

Given your recent re-entry, and, BTW, riding for 45 minutes is no big deal, even at a high level of exertion... (not knocking you, just letting you know that many who are competitively oriented will ride for 2+ hrs at high /race level often during training cycles...), My suggestions are:

progress incrementally to your aero TT position. Work on getting greater hip/core/back flexibility. Get to being able to put your palms on the ground, with legs straight not bent. Yoga really helps.
Forget the clipon aero bars for a while (months) and get your bike back to the bikeshop fit position. Then train so that you're getting comfortable and powerful riding in the drops. It's likely that any races you do in the SPring and early summer will find you doing better in the drops than on the aero clipons.
Also work on developing pedaling efficiency - that means a solid high cadence in whatever gear you're pedaling (at least 90+ rpm). You'll really require this whenever you hit slight rises and need keep up power and speed. Pedaling a big gear, with a slow cadence, is a formula for hitting the wall whenever a rise needs to be overcome.
Once you've accumulated a couple thousand miles, and the dropbar position becomes 'regular' and you can powerfully pedal a solid gear, at a good cadence; then it might be time to start developing your 'aero TT ' position on the clipons...

BTW, being in Ontario... - if you;re out in the boonies, developing a taste for xc-skiing would go a long way to developing good cycling strengths, speed skating is also a great complement to cycling. This has been proven for decades as very positive crossover.
If I lived up there, I'd been on skates or skis every day from Nov. to Apr....

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Old 01-01-13, 01:10 AM
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I can't comment on this issue re: aero bars, but I find generally that positions that are comfortable on the road aren't always as comfortable on a trainer.

I would work on flexibility in other ways off the bike. You obviously don't need to be aero on a trainer. Maybe the fit/position is not ideal and maybe a fit will help, but training in a position that's more comfortable is better than not training.
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Old 01-01-13, 07:15 AM
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After reading these posts I'm wondering if I should get rid of the aero bars. If I can't stay in them for the whole race, they may not be of any benefit as they add weigh and reduce aerodynamics. If I have to keep switching back and forth between the drop and aero positions, the bike can't be set up for both.
I started riding last spring and I could barely go 5 km without being uncomfortable. I worked my way up and by the end of the summer I was going out twice a week, one long of about 75 minutes and one threshold of about 45 minutes. I only went twice a week because I'm trying to get into triathlons and needed to work on running and swimming also. I'm biking now on the trainer three times a week for about 45 minutes each. I love skate skiing but I have a limited practice time in the week and so I would have to drop one of my other sports if I skied.
I know that 45 minutes is no big deal and I think that's what is frustrating for me. I'm transitioning over from marathon running and so have gone from running almost effortlessly for hours to struggling to stay in the proper position for 10 minutes. I like your advice about working on the drop position and developing technique. Should I be able to stay in the drop position for the whole practice?
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Old 01-01-13, 07:49 AM
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I'll reiterate that details on what prevents you from holding the aero position would help.

I'm extremely inflexible, I have a very bad back ("several burst and bulging discs" to quote my doctor, and I've collapsed half a dozen times since 1997 due to my back giving out), and I've been accused of having a super low bar. In fact my bar position is significantly more comfortable than if I raised it a few cm, and at the end of a long ride (4-6 hours) I am only comfortable in the drops in that "low bar position".

A textbook fitter may not drop my bar as low as I prefer but I've found through experimentation that this works much better for me than a higher bar.

So what makes you uncomfortable? Shoulders? Neck? Hips? Can't breathe?

What sort of proportions do you have? I'm guessing very long legs, short torso, long arms, simply because those body proportions are hardest to fit for an aero position.

As far as your question about drops, in an hour race I'll spend 90% of the time on the drops. In a 5-6 hour ride I'll spend about 80-90% of the last 2-3 hours in the drops on the flats and descents (I typically climb seated while holding the tops and when standing I hold the hoods). The last time I did a super long ride I spent virtually the entire last hour of a 6 hour ride on the drops.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:06 AM
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Thanks, that's very helpful. I'm 5' 8" and I think that I'm equally proportioned although I don't know how to tell. It's my legs that are uncomfortable in the aero position. The drop position actually feels more comfortable to me.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
I'll reiterate that details on what prevents you from holding the aero position would help.

I'm extremely inflexible, I have a very bad back ("several burst and bulging discs" to quote my doctor, and I've collapsed half a dozen times since 1997 due to my back giving out), and I've been accused of having a super low bar. In fact my bar position is significantly more comfortable than if I raised it a few cm, and at the end of a long ride (4-6 hours) I am only comfortable in the drops in that "low bar position".

A textbook fitter may not drop my bar as low as I prefer but I've found through experimentation that this works much better for me than a higher bar.

So what makes you uncomfortable? Shoulders? Neck? Hips? Can't breathe?

What sort of proportions do you have? I'm guessing very long legs, short torso, long arms, simply because those body proportions are hardest to fit for an aero position.

As far as your question about drops, in an hour race I'll spend 90% of the time on the drops. In a 5-6 hour ride I'll spend about 80-90% of the last 2-3 hours in the drops on the flats and descents (I typically climb seated while holding the tops and when standing I hold the hoods). The last time I did a super long ride I spent virtually the entire last hour of a 6 hour ride on the drops.
Hi carped,
First...can you answer a few questions about yourself? I too am let's say...relatively inflexible...average at best, if that.
But..I would say most that are inflexible like you and me do not prefer a low handlebar like you do...I don't. I ride with handlebar the same level as my saddle. So my question is really two fold:
- How do you reconcile such a bad back being comfortable with such a high level of lumbar flexion?
- You say you are inflexible...and yet your very low bar position seems to belie this a bit in that your neck must have a fair degree of flexibility to see the road in the drops with a very low bar position. Can you see well down the road when riding in the drops?...or is your extreme position only allow see the road just in front of you?
Thanks.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:44 AM
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two words....Fit & Flexibility you need to have both
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Old 01-01-13, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by b2run View Post
After reading these posts I'm wondering if I should get rid of the aero bars. If I can't stay in them for the whole race, they may not be of any benefit as they add weigh and reduce aerodynamics. If I have to keep switching back and forth between the drop and aero positions, the bike can't be set up for both.
I started riding last spring and I could barely go 5 km without being uncomfortable. I worked my way up and by the end of the summer I was going out twice a week, one long of about 75 minutes and one threshold of about 45 minutes. I only went twice a week because I'm trying to get into triathlons and needed to work on running and swimming also. I'm biking now on the trainer three times a week for about 45 minutes each. I love skate skiing but I have a limited practice time in the week and so I would have to drop one of my other sports if I skied.
I know that 45 minutes is no big deal and I think that's what is frustrating for me. I'm transitioning over from marathon running and so have gone from running almost effortlessly for hours to struggling to stay in the proper position for 10 minutes. I like your advice about working on the drop position and developing technique. Should I be able to stay in the drop position for the whole practice?
Yes, you should stay in your bars for the whole practice if possible. The trainer is an excellent place to work on it. Start easy, and gradually increase time on aerobars, assuming you've got a reasonable fit. (You actually don't need a 'pro' fit, but you shouldn't be way off.)

I was a pure marathoner before crossing over to pure cycling and then triathlon. I've been riding mainly TT bike for the past 3-4 years, and staying aero for 3 hrs with nary a break in the position takes practice and time in the saddle. You have to train it gradually, and it will improve. You should not expect to get on the bike and suddenly be comfortable in that position for hours. If you're in pain, stop and check out your fit, but if you're just uncomfortable, odds are you just need more time in the saddle/position.

Even though I train nearly mostly with a TT bike indoors and outdoors, on race day for Half ironman (56 mile bike, ridden at aerobic pace since you still have to hammer a half marathon after it), back discomfort has been more limiting for me than the legs/cardio since you're riding purposely at an aerobic pace. I can still hold the aero for pretty much the entire 2:35-2:45 race time with few breaks, but it always gets hard in the last 40 mins for me, likely because I train on so many hills compared to race day that you're out of aero for on the climbs. Am fixing that issue for sure this year for a spring HIM with 2:30-3 hr trainer rides all in aero position. I'm still struggling now after 2:20, but a few more weeks and I'm sure I'll be at the 3hr mark.
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Old 01-01-13, 09:04 AM
  #23  
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do you have a big belly? my big belly makes the drops a no go area for me.
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Old 01-01-13, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by coasting View Post
do you have a big belly? my big belly makes the drops a no go area for me.
Slight bulge. Nothing that gets in the way.
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Old 01-01-13, 11:43 AM
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Aside from fit and conditioning, there's the issue of what just works for you. Even if there's no pain issue, more drop isn't always better if it affects your ability to fully utilize your lungs.
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