What were the bike weights of the Lemond era?
03-11-13, 07:23 AM
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Look at the overall average speed increase in the Tour de France with the increase in human performance factored out (Do this by charting the speed increase in running performance). The noticeable speed increases were caused by the introduction of aluminum rims/components and derailleur authorized (30's), and introduction of PED's (90's). Bicycle Quarterly did an article on this.
03-11-13, 07:32 AM
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^Derailleur's were invented a bit before their use was allowed in the TDF.
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03-11-13, 07:47 AM
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They rode the TdF on single-speeds?
My legs are aching in sympathy...
My legs are aching in sympathy...
03-11-13, 07:50 AM
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First single speeds. Then, flip/flop two speed hubs. Then various forms of derailleurs.
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03-11-13, 09:04 AM
#55
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Agreed, too many variables. However W/KG on a specific climb (the Alpe d'Huez for instance) is a reliable metric, and has been going down.
03-11-13, 09:29 AM
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03-11-13, 10:24 AM
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Incorrect.
Because wind resistance is a squared function of speed, while that potential energy is converted back to kinetic energy, it's dissipated fighting the increased wind resistance.
So you don't get back in speed on the descent what you lost on the ascent.
Setting aside, that it doesn't much matter if you got dropped on the ascent, or it's a mountain top finish.
Because wind resistance is a squared function of speed, while that potential energy is converted back to kinetic energy, it's dissipated fighting the increased wind resistance.
So you don't get back in speed on the descent what you lost on the ascent.
Setting aside, that it doesn't much matter if you got dropped on the ascent, or it's a mountain top finish.
The easiest example is to imagine a 30 mile hill. Let's say you go up it at 15 mph and down it at 45 mph. It's going to take you two hours to go up and 40 minutes to go down for a total of 2:40. Now you're given the choice to increase you speed on one of the two legs by 5 mph, but slow the other by the same 5 mph. If you choose to speed your climb (now climbing at 20 mph and descending at 40 mph), your uphill leg now takes 1.5 hours and the downhill is 45 minutes for a total of 2:15. If you choose to speed your descent (now climbing at 10 mph and descending at 50 mph), your climb now takes 3 hours and you're descending for 36 minutes for a total of 3:36. Obviously a 4 pound change isn't going to have such drastic consequences, but you can extrapolate from the big easy numbers to see that it's always better to climb faster and descend slower. And that's without taking into account Merlin's wind resistance comments which will also play an effect, but I'd argue to a lesser extent (though maybe not with such small differences).
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03-11-13, 10:40 AM
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I heard that racing in the US was done on single speeds long after derailleurs were allowed in European racing.
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Last edited by Trsnrtr; 03-11-13 at 10:45 AM.
03-11-13, 10:45 AM
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Probably at least as important as the whole wind resistance thing is the fact that you spend a lot more time going slower uphill than you do going down the hill faster. This is the little bit of math that everyone forgets when they talk about speed changes like that. Not that I'm disagreeing with you in the slightest that it downhill doesn't come close to making up for uphill.
So you have at least 4 reasons why faster descending doesn't make up for the loss on the climb:
1) mathematics of the time spent climbing versus descending;
2) wind resistance;
3) getting dropped on the climb;
4) mountainn top finishes.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
03-11-13, 10:49 AM
#60
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I raced a Tommasini SL ("Comp") frame, MA40 tubs, Dura-Ace 7402, SSM Regal saddle back in the late eighties. It was right around 21 lbs. Back then, anything sub 19 was considered extremely light.
Also, less than 28 spokes was considered dangerous back then. I had a set of early American Classic hubs and Ambrosio rims that were 28/32 and considered hot stuff back then. I now ride a 16 spoke front on my training wheels with zero issues. I'm not sure what accounts for that change, heavier rims perhaps? Better alloys?
Also, less than 28 spokes was considered dangerous back then. I had a set of early American Classic hubs and Ambrosio rims that were 28/32 and considered hot stuff back then. I now ride a 16 spoke front on my training wheels with zero issues. I'm not sure what accounts for that change, heavier rims perhaps? Better alloys?
03-11-13, 10:52 AM
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The steel frames give you more iron-rich blood by osmosis.
03-11-13, 03:35 PM
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Hey guys. Finally joined BF because of this thread! Good stuff here. So, I once asked a friend-mentor-frame builder-coach-racer from the 50's (alongside Tom Simpson, England) about weight, and he told me his race ride would have been about 22-23 lbs back then; with 'suicide' front derailleur, no less. Steel cranks, but alloy stem, post, etc.
I would say that is pretty good for 30 years before LeMond's era. FTR, I love the LeMond years leading into the fast 90's, where in a given Grand Tour you would have downtube shifters mixed in with 8 spd brifter groups, and carbon/aluminium/steel frames racing together. All of my bikes are friction 8 or 9 spd, except for one, and ranging from 16 to 25 lbs. Love vintage tubular wheelsets too. Huge performance gains experienced dropping from 25 to 20 lbs. Sub 20 lb steel bikes in LeMond's time were very real.
Okay, that is all. Thanks for reading. Cheers.
I would say that is pretty good for 30 years before LeMond's era. FTR, I love the LeMond years leading into the fast 90's, where in a given Grand Tour you would have downtube shifters mixed in with 8 spd brifter groups, and carbon/aluminium/steel frames racing together. All of my bikes are friction 8 or 9 spd, except for one, and ranging from 16 to 25 lbs. Love vintage tubular wheelsets too. Huge performance gains experienced dropping from 25 to 20 lbs. Sub 20 lb steel bikes in LeMond's time were very real.
Okay, that is all. Thanks for reading. Cheers.
04-07-13, 01:44 PM
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My 1990 Roland Della Santa built Greg Lemond Z steel bike (Columbus SLX) weighs approx. 10.5 kg.
My bike is built up with Campagnolo Omega wheels (32 spokes), and a mix of Campagnolo parts, including the Delta brakes.
The frame and fork weigh approx. 2800 grams.
The TVT carbon frameset of the Team Z bike weighs about 1800 grams, so built up it will be approx. 9,5 kg.
My bike is built up with Campagnolo Omega wheels (32 spokes), and a mix of Campagnolo parts, including the Delta brakes.
The frame and fork weigh approx. 2800 grams.
The TVT carbon frameset of the Team Z bike weighs about 1800 grams, so built up it will be approx. 9,5 kg.
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