From local elite runner to cyclist. How long until the pain goes away?
 

I'm an elite runner on the local level (16:40 5K, 1:17 half marathon, 2:44 marathon) who just started cycling as cross training and use it for recovery type workouts. But since I'm kind of competitive I'd like to get better on the bike. My problem is that my legs are constantly sore/hurting on the bike while my HR is in practically recovery zone on my rides (my Vo2max is 79 ml/kg/min) . Are riding muscles that much different from running muscles? How long until I build up the muscle base to be decent on the bike? I've only started riding two months ago and so far rode about 1,400 miles. My average pace is pretty slow, I think and I'd like to get it up higher. Are there any other fast runners who started cycling? How long did it take you to match your running performance with equal biking performance?

If you are in pain, you're doing something wrong.

What hurts? Is the pain from running, or is the cycling causing it?

Read up on cadence. Rough numbers, cadence below 85 relies more on leg strength, over 85 taxes more aerobic capability.

And yes they are different muscles.

It's mostly the quads and the anterior tibial muscles. Sometimes the hams burn too. It's a different kind of pain than while running, it's more like burning muscles. The other thing is that my friends I ride with at lunch would have way more explosive power and drop me on hills but just after the crest they would be licking their lactate wounds as I would just zip by them. It seems like they have way more maximum power output but they just can't sustain 200 Watts for any particular length of time while for me that doesn't seem to be a problem, I can ride 19 mph for 60 miles solo.

My average cadence is around 95.

The only way I got what I felt was a good effort for years after picking up cycling was a high power, low cadence effort. I wasn't quite as fast as you but close, and even now I can't get my HR up nearly as much cycling unless its a very steep and long climb.

I also used to get sore but not as much as you do. But I could tell cycling uses different muscles because my legs felt rubbery after getting off the bike.

So my advice is get the distance and time on the bike; don't always push it; and enjoy cycling. If you do it for recovery, try high cadence easy gear combos.

1400 mi in 60 days = 23.33 mi/day = @ least 1-1.5hrs on the bike every day

I'm not a runner/never have been but that is quite a bit of miles alongside running... maybe drop it down a little bit?

when you quit running, the pain will go away.

cycling. if you're doing it right, the pain never stops. suffering. that's what it's about. it's not about the bike.

Yup, different muscles. You'll need to give your muscular-skeletal system a chance to catchup with your aerobic capacity. 1400miles in 2months is a boatload of miles to be starting with, so it's no wonder that you're sore. You need to build some good riding habits (posture, efficiency, form, handling skills, group riding experience, nutrition etc) prior to really focusing on being competitive IMO. That's not meant as discouraging you, rather that these skills are all equally important as strength and endurance.

Shut up legs.

:rolleyes:

Oh you are sooo hardcore.

Have you tried any intervals on the bike? Start with 20min intervals. With your VO2Max you should be able, eventually, to ride at 5+W/kg for an hour.

edit: Lots of ideas for intervals here:http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ut-recipe-book

You've got an aerobic engine that allows you to push your legs beyond what they're trained for cycling.

It's kinda funny because cyclists that try to run really have this problem.

Years ago, there was a guy named Lance Armstrong who seemed to do ok.

Did you get fitted to the bike? My guess is your seat is too low. Your leg should be almost totally straight when your leg is in the down position without the knee being locked.

Quad soreness could also relate to poor pedaling technique. I.E you should work on pedaling in circles rather than like a piston. Pull up from 9-12 and push down with your heal on the down stroke. One legged drills really help with this.

Though I never really liked running, I've been reasonably fast. 35'/10km. I've found the two sports complement each other in some ways, not in others. Mental toughness, aerobic: yes. Legs: not so much. When well trained for cycling, I've been 10 -15 lbs heavier than my ideal running weight.
Weights in the off-season, and lots of miles is my advice. Do some intervals as Greg suggested. The speed will come.

200 watts is warming up

Running and cycling muscles do overlap but there are enough differences to make transition difficult. Just ask tri guys.

You have an aerobic base but competitive cycling is all about suffering in the anaerobic and anaerobic recovery.

Make sure your fit is good and then log some real miles. Hint, aim for 1000 mikes a month but don't just attempt the volume without working up to it. Have some respect for the sport. You're a runner. Now you need to learn to be a cyclist.

Good luck and enjoy.

Oh, right now I'm not running much. I only ran 300 miles this year so far. My commute is 15+ miles one way plus I ride with my co-workers 10-20 miles at lunch so yeah, some weekdays days I ride 50 miles. This morning I ran 6 miles easy (7:30/mile) then rode to work and I'll ride back home. I'm skipping the lunch ride. I usually work out 12-13 hours a week. Sounds about right. When I was in full running mode I'd run 80-90 miles a week but I would not ride. Since I've been getting some injuries at 100 miles a week I figured I'd lower the running mileage and up the riding mileage to get in higher aerobic training load without killing my legs. I'm still concentrating on doing my quality workouts (LT, VO2Max) on foot and only build/maintain aerobic base on the bike. But I guess if I ever want to be half decent at riding I will have to start doing quality work on the bike too.


Yeah, that's not going to happen :-).

Are you talking about LT intervals? Ride 20 minutes at LT in a ride? I'm guessing my LT heart rate is a bit lower in cycling than in running. For running it's around 86-87% HRR but I'd be hard pressed to keep that HR effort for 20 minutes on the bike. I'll look at the link, thanks!

Yeah, I guess I just have to build up the riding muscles more. I never realized that the two are so drastically different. I'm definitely taken back a bit by how hard riding actually is on me.

For me there is more pain in running. At a given time, your entire weight is supported by just one leg/knee, more impact and stress on the joints. Running is like time-trialing. There is no coasting, no drafting.

Too much too soon equals injury. With correct posture, spin easy gears, the big gears will follow later without pain. Thru time the muscles will adapt and I bet you will become a competitive rider. Enjoy riding first.

Ain't that the truth. I can't run worth a dam...no problem cycling however.
Same engine...completely different ball game.

OP...I suggest it maybe partly the position on the bike. You maybe recruiting the wrong muscles based upon your position.
Seat height and setback are kind of a big deal...and adequate cockpit reach. Position is big...with properly rotated pelvis.

Your cadence sounds OK. You maybe pushing too much gear though for your level of leg development (for cycling)..maybe not
enough rest/base miles at low effort.

You will likely be real fast with your background if you stick with it because you have the engine.

Friend who "crossed over" from college running career tried a 30-minute beginners' crit (cat 5) during his first year: he was shelled in the first half and got lapped a couple times (humbling experience--but we've all been there!). It took well over a year to start realizing cycling success/equivalent, and that only in fast-paced training rides, not sure about races 'cause he stopped doing them: he got into triathlons.

Yes, as someone else said, the musculature & physiology required are different, and it takes time to adapt. Once they do, your CV system will give you great benefits.

A friend who also used to be a fairly elite level runner (he also did many ultra marathons) has transitioned into a fairly strong cyclist. When I asked him how long it took...he said it was almost three years before his legs really came around and he felt strong on the bike.

Stan your comment about needing a long, steep climb to get your heart rate up is very interesting. Are you saying that raw speed on a flat course and the accompanying increase in air resistance can't do it for you? The mechanical advantage of the bike allows us to ride very fast and still just turn the cranks within our large motor muscle speed capability. Unlike running where there is only one gear (not one speed, but one ratio of conversion of effort to speed), in cycling you can just keep upshifting. Does that not provide enough effort on a flat to max out your aerobic capacity? Just wondering.