Learning how to climb.... With nothing to climb
 

During a small group ride today, I noticed someone wearing a full Dominican Republic kit (it looked awful). I'm Dominican myself so I started to make conversation. He mentioned how he used to do races over there and there was a big one coming up in August. It's a 4 day "vuelta" and one of the biggest races over there. I was excited and actually considered doing it, until he told me one of the days is a 90km mountain stage with some 19% climbs. Well, I live in South Florida and this is a problem for me...... I don't climb....... At all. He also told me that one of the bigger bridges down here (Miami), which I thought was fairly big, is only 3.9%.

I would like to do the race, but how can I train to climb? Will doing constant repeats on those bridges help? The climb is about half a mile long. Or just "HTFU" and hope for the best. I think only one of the 4 stages has climbs though.

Off top o' my head...

Big gear (biggest gear!)/low cadence intervals for 3+ minutes.
Riding into headwinds.
Both.
Overpasses in big gear.
All three.
Seated.
And standing.

I'm afraid none of the flatlanders I've met have been able to do sustained climbs without actually, you know, practicing sustained climbs. Repeats on overpasses just don't do it. Powering up a short rise and then recovering, no matter how many times you repeat, is quite different from finding a rhythm and level of output you can sustain for an hour or more and knowing how to conserve your strength for the long haul. Then there's also acclimation to altitude as the air gets thinner. There's little you can do to train for that short of sleeping in a hypobaric chamber/tent.

I'd drive up to Georgia some weekend and find a big long hill to ride up... you can certainly be fit enough to ride up any hills you'd encounter in the Dominican but hills are a mental challenge too, and it would be nice to just go do some and prove to yourself that you have what it takes. You probably have flatlander gears too, you might want to think about swapping those out if you have a really hilly event.

Nothing substitutes fighting gravity. Go find somewhere with some long climbs and ride it.

Can a trainer be used to simulate climbing? (Big gear, small cog, or something)?

Sorry man, this one is true. I am a flatlander, anywhere in a 20mile radius is pan flat. You can do intervals for rollers but 19% grades are a beast all their own. Good luck, hope you find something local.

One other thing about beastly climbs that is different from just hard peddling on a trainer: you can't stop! If you do, you're screwed. You can never get started again. That is what makes gravity so different from just plain resistance. It takes a lot of practice to get good at just that one aspect of climbing.

Also living in Florida, and having done a number of races and events with serious climbing, I put together my take on it here:

http://everestchallengex2.blogspot.c...t-landers.html

Basically, climbing is a mtter of sustained power to weight ratio. So, you need to train to raise your sustained power output, which means lots of long intervals, such as 2x20.

Sort of, but no trainer is the same as the real thing. Unless you have one of those expensive trainers that is designed to replicate a hill, which I've not been fortunate enough to use.

Yes. Prop the front wheel up to simulate a climbing position, and ride in a gear that requires the power output you'll need for the climb your training for.

Bridge repeats isn't the answer. They train you for 1-2minute bursts not the sustained climbing you'll need. So climbing your bridges can help some, its' not a substitute for doing 2x20's, preferably pushing a big gear into a headwind.

the trainer is probably your best bet. as was mentioned. prop up your front wheel so your bike is positioned like it would be on about an 8% grade and just push a huge gear at low cadence for long intervals. practice alternating standing and sitting.

Climbing is high resistance time trialing where weight counts. You can focus on losing weight and doing high effort intervals.

One thing that flatlanders often have problems with is standing. You can't simulate the "climbing while standing and using a small gear" feel when training on the flats. When climbing for real the bike slows a lot quicker for each pedal stroke, not like if you're standing using a big gear on the flats. This forces you to exert higher peak pressure on each downstroke. On the flats you miss that. Regular trainers have you rock the bike backwards because the bike is stationary. The only way to replicate that is to use a Kurt Rock N Road trainer with a lot of resistance or to use motion rollers with tons of resistance. You can work on your standing rhythm using one of those. I tried one and was so impressed that I decided to "make my own" out of an extra Cycleops trainer I had laying around.

Sitting and spinning works better between flats and hills but also requires a good aerobic system and good form. Perceived effort is much lower (at least initially) when seated and spinning so it's tricky because it's so easy to blow up. The best way to train this way is to maintain a high heart rate while pedaling at a high cadence on the flats. Usually this means using lower gears for similar speeds.

Don't worry about standing or whatever. You're most powerful when you're low because then you recruit your glutes. This is why you instinctively lean over whenever it gets hard, even on a climb.

In a similar situation I went out to Colorado to visit a friend. He was one of my old teammates/leadout-men, who, by definition at least in my case, means he's much more fit and much stronger than me. He lives at over 7000' altitude. We rode out to Vail at 8000' on the one day of training we got in before we headed out to a trade show. Even though I live basically at sea level, even though I wasn't "training" for long climbs, my normal (dead flat) riding and racing schedule was good enough that I could drop him at will on the climbs.

If you're skinny/light then you'll probably be (relatively) okay in the hills, depending on your fitness etc. If you're heavy/not-skinny or have low aerobic capacities or both (like me) then all the training in the world won't help you climb with the big boys.

You'll do long climbs at about your FTP. There's no escaping your FTP limiter. You can go higher for a given period of time (it's acknowledged you can go 5% higher for 20 minutes for example) but your FTP is your cap. In this way climbing is like running - 90% of what you can do is determined by your physical characteristics. Think about running - if I run a 6:30 mile at best and there's a runner that does a 4:30 mile, there's no freaking way I'm going to beat that other runner. I can do whatever I want but short of jumping in a car or on a bike I won't cover a mile faster than him. You (and me and everyone else) has some relative level of climbing ability/speed. You can compete in that world. You can't jump into a faster world and expect to compete without radically dropping weight or radically increasing aerobic capacity.

No trainer work will prepare you properly for 19%.
Are there any parkades/garages near you with ramps? You could sneak in or bribe the booth attendant.

If that's not feasible, I'd advise intervals while applying the brakes. It's a far better hill simulation than just pushing a big gear. Try it (best if you don't have carbon rims, though).

Here's an example of why bridge repeats aern't optimal for training FTP, which as pointed out you need for long climbs.


http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...t/Untitled.jpg



That's my file for the Mt Accosta Endurance Classic, 3 hours of Bridge repeats.

It was a heck of a workout, I burnt 75 matches (the number of times above FTP) But if you look at max 10 and 20 minute power, I'm well below FTP.

It trains the wrong things for sustained climbs.

So some bridge repeats will be helpful, but not at expense of working on your FTP.

You should try running to help with climbing on your bike. I had been running for several months before I started riding again and it made a huge difference for me on climbs. I run about a 8:30 mile pace and had no problem keeping up with the guys I started riding with, especially while climbing. Do running repeats on the bridges you ride and it'll kick your butt, but it will also make you stronger on your bike.

Sport specificity.

I'm sure running bridges can make someone faster, than no training at all.

That said running is not optimal training for bicycle racing.

My bet is that your bridge running improved your general fitness, and therefore your climbing, because you were pushing yourself harder bridge running, than you are riding.

The key again is sustained power output. Doing 2x20's on the flats at FTP is going to help way more than running possibly can.

Yea, I am in no way expecting or trying to win this race at all. I'm doing it for fun and the experience since I have never even ridden anywhere out of my city. I'm just more concerned of actually being able to do the stage at my own pace before the clean up van decides to scoop me up.

Edit: Also I'm not very skinny or light. My goal weight is 180 (current 186.5, officially 60 lbs lost :beer:) but don't want to get much less than that. I'll look even skinnier than the top pro climbers.

I thought about going to NC since I have relatives over there. But my other thought would be how many training rides would prepare me for the climb? Doing a couple of big climbing rides will help I'm sure, since I already have a good base fitness. And also for the pacing/mental aspect of climbs. I have been riding for a year now but taken it pretty seriously. I train often at pretty high sustained efforts with many of the racers in the area. But once the road points up, the problem I imagine having is pacing. I've gotten the bad habit of just sprinting up the bridge just to get it over with since I know it won't be long.

I'm going to read up on that a little later. Seems like it'll help me the most since you can relate to my Florida problems. I haven't done 2x20's in a while, going to start interval work again once this semester is over.

There are some university campuses with parking garages, I can try and sneak in late at night and do some, but these are even shorter than the bridge I'm referring to and merlin stated it won't help much. If anything I'll just train on the bridge since it's legal and safer.

There are actually ergometers now that can truly simulate climbing. You can actually do all your training on them and not ride outside for months or even years. Yet when you do, it feels like you never stopped riding on the road. No funny business and none of the traditional loss of power transitioning from outdoors to indoors in the fall and then taking another hit in the spring transitioning back to outdoor riding.

Those of you who also live in mountainous areas know that a winter of riding rollers or even a few weeks without climbing will cause you to lose your "climbing legs." That's no longer the case.

My parkade idea was a bit silly.
Try the brakes thing the next time you ride. It's a surprisingly close simulation to steep climbing. Painful. Looks funny too.

I'm not about to go out any by a pricey trainer just for the ride though. It's never winter down here so the only reason for me to get a trainer would be if it rains or I just don't feel like going outside (which hasn't happened yet). Seems like a good thing for the northerners though. Is it really STILL snowing in some parts?

My daughter raced for her college team in Wichita Falls, Texas. It's flat. Ask anyone who had done the Hotter 'n Hell. They trained for hills with what they did have: plenty of wind. They would also drive up to Lawton, Oklahoma where there was a mountain range and train there frequently.

Yep, still have snow.

19% is tough, but you can prepare for them adequately on a trainer. I have a climb with a nasty 19% section in it that's short but nasty. (The rest of the climb is significant - takes a decent rider an hour to get to the top with nearly no descent.) I have a powermeter, so I know how much power it takes for me to get up that 19% - to keep moving at a snail's pace, it's about 300 watts, and to actually roll faster than that is 350+. So a good amount of power, but certainly well within the range of trainer - lots of guys do 2 x 20' sets at 300 watts. A trainer works fine for those steep climbs but you do have to work pretty hard on the trainer - it'll hurt.