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What happened to "scandium"?

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What happened to "scandium"?

Old 05-18-13, 01:20 PM
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What happened to "scandium"?

For about five minutes it was all the rage in frames. Of course it helps to understand that this was just an exotic aluminum alloy with just a trace of scandium in it, so we are really talking about "better" aluminum frames. But they seem to have come and gone in a hurry. Wha's up with that? - Robert
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Old 05-18-13, 01:34 PM
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My bet is that the price of rare earths like Scandium have skyrocketed to the point of making it's use uneconomical. I don't really know, though.
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Old 05-18-13, 01:42 PM
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Carbon fiber.

As the OP stated, its just an aluminum alloy, and CF has pretty much replaced higher end aluminum.
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Old 05-18-13, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Carbon fiber.

As the OP stated, its just an aluminum alloy, and CF has pretty much replaced higher end aluminum.
Okay, so if I understand what you are saying, the aluminum that is left in the marketplace occupies a price point at which Sc/Al alloy can't compete. At the price that has to be charged for it, it isn't enough better than regular Al alloys to go head to head with CF. Is that right?
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Old 05-18-13, 03:03 PM
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Hanging out with the beryllium hype from 20 years ago.
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Old 05-18-13, 03:44 PM
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Well. If people decided they prefer ferrous to non-ferrous metal for their bicycle frames, perhaps we could say that scandium got "steeled"; but that sounds like flaky verb-tense, so... "stolen"? Nah... that's too much like stollen, which is a Christmas-y powdered fruit cake.
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Old 05-18-13, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JBHoren
Well. If people decided they prefer ferrous to non-ferrous metal for their bicycle frames, perhaps we could say that scandium got "steeled"; but that sounds like flaky verb-tense, so... "stolen"? Nah... that's too much like stollen, which is a Christmas-y powdered fruit cake.
I'm all over that stollen stuff.
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Old 05-18-13, 03:52 PM
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i have scandium in my giant p-slr1 wheels
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Old 05-18-13, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jerrayy
i have scandium in my giant p-slr1 wheels
Do they glow in the dark? Heck, do they glow in the light? I'm easy!
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Old 05-18-13, 04:24 PM
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Hi,

Scandium is used in quality alloy bike frames. The big
thing that didn't really happen is lithium as a fairly
high % ingredient of alloy frames, CF took over.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 05-18-13, 04:31 PM
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I don't know about bikes, but it was the range in the gun community also. Then the guns started to go Kaboom.
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Old 05-18-13, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I'm all over that stollen stuff.
thats right. do not just cast off stollen with other pedestrian fruit cakes. it can be quite delicious
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Old 05-18-13, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CALE262
Hanging out with the beryllium hype from 20 years ago.
And with the boron hype from 30 years ago.
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Old 05-18-13, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Okay, so if I understand what you are saying, the aluminum that is left in the marketplace occupies a price point at which Sc/Al alloy can't compete. At the price that has to be charged for it, it isn't enough better than regular Al alloys to go head to head with CF. Is that right?
Correct.

It is more expensive as a material and harder to work with than the more common 6000 or 7000 series alloys.
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Old 05-18-13, 05:58 PM
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Scamdium.
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Old 05-18-13, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CrankAndYank
Scamdium.
Incorrect.

The alloy is lighter and stronger than other alloys. It was priced out of the market.

FYI, There are still Scandium frames being made.
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Old 05-18-13, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina

It is more expensive as a material and harder to work with than the more common 6000 or 7000 series alloys.

The alloy is lighter and stronger than other alloys. It was priced out of the market.
Hi,

No and no.

Scandium makes good quality alloys easier to work with.

It makes no difference to the lightness / density of the alloy,
it does affect the strength by reducing strength reduction.

Lithium which does affect density and is harder to work
with unsurprisingly was priced out of the market by CF.

rgds, sreten.

Last edited by sreten; 05-18-13 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 05-18-13, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sreten
Hi,

No and no.

Scandium makes good quality alloys easier to work with.

It makes no difference to the lightness/ density of the alloy.

Lithium which does was priced out of the market by CF.

rgds, sreten.
Perhaps the lighter was a shorthand misstatement. If it makes a stronger alloy, then thinner tubes can be used, so hence lighter.
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Old 05-18-13, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I'm all over that stollen stuff.
Baby Bike Bolts??
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Old 05-18-13, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Perhaps the lighter was a shorthand misstatement.
If it makes a stronger alloy, then thinner tubes can
be used, so hence lighter.
Hi,

Perhaps, but the real big thing that never happened was
loading the alloy with up to 30% lithium which is AFAIK
the only way of making a significantly less dense alloy.

CF kiboshed that route as the ultimate bike frame.

Scandium is still used for quality stuff as it makes it easier.
Lithium was the next big thing that CF made redundant.

rgds, sreten.

Last edited by sreten; 05-18-13 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 05-19-13, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JBHoren
Well. If people decided they prefer ferrous to non-ferrous metal for their bicycle frames, perhaps we could say that scandium got "steeled"; but that sounds like flaky verb-tense, so... "stolen"? Nah... that's too much like stollen, which is a Christmas-y powdered fruit cake.
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I'm all over that stollen stuff.
Originally Posted by save10
thats right. do not just cast off stollen with other pedestrian fruit cakes. it can be quite delicious
IANAL, but we should all be careful about "receiving stollen goods"!
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Old 05-19-13, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sreten
Hi,

No and no.

Scandium makes good quality alloys easier to work with.

It makes no difference to the lightness / density of the alloy,
it does affect the strength by reducing strength reduction.

Lithium which does affect density and is harder to work
with unsurprisingly was priced out of the market by CF.

rgds, sreten.
Incorrect.

That's why there is only one top level scandium frame producer in all of Taiwan.

I gave up trying to bring a scandium cross frame to market for a variety of reasons all related to the difficulties and expenses of the material.

I stand by my INDUSTRY SPECIFIC assertion.
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Old 05-19-13, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
Incorrect.

That's why there is only one top level scandium frame producer in all of Taiwan.

I gave up trying to bring a scandium cross frame to market for a variety of reasons all related to the difficulties and expenses of the material.

I stand by my INDUSTRY SPECIFIC assertion.
I have no idea why I am going to try to get in between you guys when I don't know s**t about the subject, but it is a quiet Sunday morning... So from what I have been reading, scandium modifies the alloy crystallization properties so that the welding doesn't weaken or embrittle the material as much as normal Al alloys. That could be interpreted by a reader as meaning that Sc/Al alloys are easier to work with, i.e. one doesn't have to be as rigorous about welding technique and so on. But that doesn't mean that the Sc/Al alloy is easier to extrude, cut, machine, etc. In general stronger, tougher alloys are slower and harder to form by just about any process. Could that be the disconnect between BDop and sreten? Assigning easier and harder to different aspects of the construction process?
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Old 05-19-13, 09:23 AM
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^^^ Yes.

There is theory and there is industrial application (reality).

When a factory has to adjust tooling for different materials there are costs. When training and techniques differ because of materials there are costs. When there is a limited supply of a material (scandium tubing) those costs escalate based on this demand.

For a factory ANYTHING that deviates from their SOP has a cost.

I could add to this list but its bedtime.
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Old 05-19-13, 10:09 AM
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Maybe it was a fad for a short time.
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