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Why do you support you LBS???

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Why do you support you LBS???

Old 05-21-13, 05:39 PM
  #1  
blackbox
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Why do you support you LBS???

I am a new road cyclist, its been over 15 years since I've biked in high school.
My knowledge is limited, but have been doing researches on road bikes for the last few months, with still lots to learn. In other words, I am still a noob, but not as ******** as some LBS might think.

Recently I've scored a fairly good deal on a road bike from a local LBS.
All was great, but after just under 100 km of riding, I am hearing some cracking noise coming from the crank. Check the FD, and found no chain rub.

Took it to the shop, they heard it and said its the bottom bracket.
One of the nicer employee said they will look at it and let me know in a day or 2 when it is fixed. While, another older employee told me that this is normal, and that they would tape the bearings. Not knowing what that is, I've left the bike with them.

Before I left the shop, I've talked to the older employee while the younger, nicer employee went back to working on other bikes.

Below are the questions I've asked, and the answers I've got.

Spec of my Bike:
Cannondale Caad10 with full SRAM Red, except for Ultegra Cassette.
The bike was a trade-in from a previous customer to the shop, never notice the Ultegra cassette till my friend asked me a few weeks later. The bike was suppose to be custom build from the frame up.

2012 CAAD10
2011 Sram Red shifter
Sram Red tour edition brakes
Sram Red FD
Sram red Tour edition RD
Shimano ultegra cassette
2011 Sram Red crank (Cannondale OEM)
FSA SLK Stem
Cannondale C3 Alloy handle bar
FSA SLK seat Post
Fizik Antera saddle (Cannondale OEM White/Green)
Fulcrum racing 5 wheels
Vittoria Rubbino Pro slick tires
Shimano M540 MTB pedals


1) Why are the cables crossed under the bottom tube (FD & RD)?
Answer: Its OK, they are like that sometimes for tension purpose

2) Whats the most economical way to lose 1lb on this bike?
Answer: New Wheels

3) I understand that wheels would be nice, but expansive, what about getting carbon stem and Carbon handle bars to replace the aluminum?
Answer: Modern alloy bars are lighter then carbon.

4) If the BB bearings need replacing, can I pay the difference in the replacement for ceramic bearings?
Answer: You don't want ceramic, they require replacing every week.

5) Really, isn't ceramic longer lasting?
Answer: No, they are just smoother.

6) For wheels, do you guys do any custom wheels?
Answer: We can build you a custom wheel, but they are a lot more expansive than off the shelf once. Easton wheels are also hand build, but much better value.

7) Ok, how much are the Mavic R-Sys SLR?
Answer: $3700, but since you got the bike from us, we can get you some discount.

8) Really, I see most place selling them for $2000
Answer: People that sells for that price are OEM pulled, and will be tricky with warranty purpose.

9) For some reason, the bike came with Ultegra Cassette. Is it worth it to upgrade it to Red.
Answer: You don't want the Red, they are extremely noise, expansive, and not much lighter.


I am sure I am missing a few more question, but I am pretty sure that some of his answers were complete B.S., along with the prices.

Which makes me wonder why I should support my LBS, which some likes to do. The $1700 I save on the wheels alone will pay for all the services I've ever need for many many years.

I just feel like they are trying to nuke a newbie, it is really worth it to pay an extreme premium to support local?

Last edited by blackbox; 05-22-13 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 05-21-13, 05:57 PM
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He's pretty much spot on. Sounds like a good shop. He didn't try to sell you a bunch of crap you don't need.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:10 PM
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An LBS thread...:
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Old 05-21-13, 06:14 PM
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Also, creaks and squeaks are notoriously hard to diagnose and reproduce so the first attempt might not fix it. BB is usually where people start, but noises can come from lots of places.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:14 PM
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i worked at my LBS for a while, formed a good relationship, got a 4300 dollar Madone for only 2600
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Old 05-21-13, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
He's pretty much spot on. Sounds like a good shop. He didn't try to sell you a bunch of crap you don't need.
This.

As for why I support my local LBS, I really try to because they were, and still are, very helpful whenever I bring my bike in for issues, or just want to by some new tires. Of course, you have to be a bit savvy as well because they like all businesses have to make a profit. But, going in having done your research seems to pay off; they know you took the time to become informed, and therefore probably are more serious.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:18 PM
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I like the owner.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:22 PM
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Best way to lose a pound? a)Pinch off a loaf before you go riding; b)Leave one water bottle home; c)Lose a pound of body weight. D)It doesn't make any difference; you'll never notice 1 lb. e)All of the above.

The answer is "e".

Heh...gotta love how the guy tried to justify you spending $1700 more...."for warranty"- when for the price difference, you could almost buy another set of wheels if needed!

I hate LBS's. Back before the interweb, we didn't have a choice...but now we do! We are liberated! I haven't set foot in an LBS in over 20 years. I owe no business any "support"- I will patronize whoever will offer me the best deal. I might not be an eggspurt...but I could fix whatever needed fixing even when I was a kid....and I can moreso now, so I have no use for an LBS with high prices and salesmen who propagate all the cycling myths/BS/propaganda, just to make a buck.

As a life-long ontramanure[entrepreneur] myself, I know that I have to EARN people's business, by striving to offer the best deals; honesty and good service- things which are often lacking from LBS's. An LBS is an almost impossible business. I'd be surprised if 5% of LBS's make any money- much less good money- but if you can't cut it in a hard business, then they need to switch businesses or offer something more or better or unique...or move.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:26 PM
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Good people and we're friends.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:27 PM
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For a detailed answer on why the cables cross: https://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html#crisscross
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Old 05-21-13, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalPedaler View Post
Best way to lose a pound? a)Pinch off a loaf before you go riding; b)Leave one water bottle home; c)Lose a pound of body weight. D)It doesn't make any difference; you'll never notice 1 lb. e)All of the above.

The answer is "e".

Heh...gotta love how the guy tried to justify you spending $1700 more...."for warranty"- when for the price difference, you could almost buy another set of wheels if needed!

I hate LBS's. Back before the interweb, we didn't have a choice...but now we do! We are liberated! I haven't set foot in an LBS in over 20 years. I owe no business any "support"- I will patronize whoever will offer me the best deal. I might not be an eggspurt...but I could fix whatever needed fixing even when I was a kid....and I can moreso now, so I have no use for an LBS with high prices and salesmen who propagate all the cycling myths/BS/propaganda, just to make a buck.

As a life-long ontramanure[entrepreneur] myself, I know that I have to EARN people's business, by striving to offer the best deals; honesty and good service- things which are often lacking from LBS's. An LBS is an almost impossible business. I'd be surprised if 5% of LBS's make any money- much less good money- but if you can't cut it in a hard business, then they need to switch businesses or offer something more or better or unique...or move.
My new nominee for "most facepalm worthy post of 2013."
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Old 05-21-13, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
I like the owner.
Originally Posted by ColtJ View Post
Good people and we're friends.
Good enough reason.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:39 PM
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I don't completely agree with all of his answers but most are very reasonable.

1) Why are the cables crossed under the bottom tube (FD & RD)?
Answer: Its OK, they are like that sometimes for tension purpose
Allows cables to be run smoother from the shifters to the cable stop by going around the headtube.

2) Whats the most economical way to lose 1lb on this bike?
Answer: New Wheels
New wheels unless you have heavy tubes and tires, then replace those first.

3) I understand that wheels would be nice, but expansive, what about getting carbon stem and Carbon handle bars to replace the aluminum?
Answer: Modern alloy bars are lighter then carbon.
You will lose very little weight with a carbon stem and carbon bars unless you drop a good bit of money. Even then you won't notice it as much as you will notice the rotational weight loss.

4) If the BB bearings need replacing, can I pay the difference in the replacement for ceramic bearings?
Answer: You don't want ceramic, they require replacing every week.
Ceramic bearings are pretty much a waste of money. There are better places to upgrade.

5) Really, isn't ceramic longer lasting?
Answer: No, they are just smoother.
Maybe a little, still not worth the money.

6) For wheels, do you guys do any custom wheels?
Answer: We can build you a custom wheel, but they are a lot more expansive then off the shelf once. Eaton wheels are also hand build, but much better value.
A lot of companies make hand built wheels. Unless you have a really good idea what you are after there really isn't much reason to have custom wheels built.

7) Ok, how much are the Mavic R-Sys SLR?
Answer: $3700, but since you got the bike from us, we can get you some discount.
Nice of them to offer you a discount.

8) Really, I see most place selling them for $2000
Answer: People that sells for that price are OEM pulled, and will be tricky with warranty purpose.
No comment.

9) For some reason, the bike came with Ultegra Cassette. Is it worth it to upgrade it to Red.
Answer: You don't want the Red, they are extremely noise, expansive, and not much lighter.
I have two red cassettes. They are very loud, certainly expensive. They are lighter but you probably won't notice.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:46 PM
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I have 2 local shops that i get some small parts from and services that i don't feel like getting online.. cables.. random tube.. bar tape etc. Over the last few years i've learned how to do many things on my own from them showing me how. Sometimes it costs me a few bucks for them to do it and I watch or sometimes they will tell me how to do it myself.

i recently took exactly 1lb off my wheelset and definitely notice.. they also might be stiffer than my old ones too. i still need to try latex tubes to see how those are.
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Old 05-21-13, 06:50 PM
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The only answer I have a problem with is the one about cost of wheels. I generally don't buy stuff from LBS because small shops just don't do enough volume to sell much below retail. Online options are always cheaper. But I support LBS because having access to pr wrenches when I have a problem I can't solve has often paid off. The LBS guy could have sold you ceramic bearings, carbon bars, new wheels, and a new cassette; you would been out of pocket thousands of dollars with no or marginal improvement in weight and ride. This gives you another answer to,your question...to get good advice about not wasting your money (which of course you are free to ignore).
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Old 05-21-13, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by blackbox View Post
I just feel like they are trying to nuke a newbie, it is really worth it to pay an extreme premium to support local?
Common sense is prevalent when dealing with a retail establishment, if they deserve it because they are supportive and knowledgeable, yes, but as you've observed, some need to be avoided, just like wines, note the sour and bitter and use the sweet and pungent...
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Old 05-21-13, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
The only answer I have a problem with is the one about cost of wheels. I generally don't buy stuff from LBS because small shops just don't do enough volume to sell much below retail. Online options are always cheaper. But I support LBS because having access to pr wrenches when I have a problem I can't solve has often paid off. The LBS guy could have sold you ceramic bearings, carbon bars, new wheels, and a new cassette; you would been out of pocket thousands of dollars with no or marginal improvement in weight and ride. This gives you another answer to,your question...to get good advice about not wasting your money (which of course you are free to ignore).
Not always. A number of companies do a pretty good job of protecting their dealers. Speedplay, Garmin and Cycleops come to mind. Lots of parts are pretty close to LBS prices on line as well. If you get a good customer discount, you might even beat internet prices.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:15 PM
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What lowcell said
Plus just ride the thing. That's one hell of a rig for a new rider. More you ride the more you will learn about what you might want to upgrade.

If you don't know how to work on your bike it's def a good idea to support your LBS.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:22 PM
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I like my LBS because they have treated me very well. I bought a CAAD8-6. They took a hundred off the price because they didn't have one in stock and I had to wait. Put the bike together and rushed it for me the day it came in. I asked nicely, and they put me at the top of the line.

Got pedals, helmet and floor pump for a very reasonable price, he pulled a C-Dale teramo helmet that they had just got in out of the back that matched the bike.

When I popped a spoke, Took the bike in and they replaced it with 2 new spokes and retrued the wheel for $40. No biggie right?

A week later, I popped another spoke, and took the bike back in, and they replaced both wheels with CAADX stock wheels at no charge. Even let me keep the front that came with the bike, both tires that were on the CAADX wheels, and the tubes.

I am very happy with my LBS.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:38 PM
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One more possibility on the reason for an Ultegra cassette is if it's in a range SRAM doesn't offer, like 12-23.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by blackbox View Post
7) Ok, how much are the Mavic R-Sys SLR?
Answer: $3700, but since you got the bike from us, we can get you some discount.

8) Really, I see most place selling them for $2000
Answer: People that sells for that price are OEM pulled, and will be tricky with warranty purpose.
He likely is confused or is talking about Mavic Carbone Ultimate which goes for $3600. Based on his other answers, he looks like he knows what he's talking about. You might ask again about the wheels you want to be sure.
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Old 05-21-13, 08:10 PM
  #22  
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Regardless of the availability of some things on line, sometimes you need a knowledgeable human to look at your bike, or you need some instant gratification for something, or you need to try something on. Some things are hard to do with 2 days shipping.

I do enjoy on line shopping but I also enjoy having a local option. it's a tricky balance but I do enjoy supporting a good shop.
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Old 05-21-13, 09:29 PM
  #23  
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It took me a year but finally found a shop that works for me. They were happy to install the parts I bought online and gave me a discount on what I bought from them.

They even came to me to fix a mistake they made. They actually replaced a chain at my location rather than making me being the bike back to them.
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Old 05-22-13, 01:49 PM
  #24  
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His answers sound quite reasonable (I assume he was talking about the Carbone Ultimates as well.)

The BB bearings probably don't need to be replaced, just a little Loctite to hold them in. It should stop the creaking - it's a well noted problem with BB30, particularly on Cannondales.
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Old 05-22-13, 02:28 PM
  #25  
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He's not trying to screw you over, he's trying to save you from yourself.

You should go ride that bike instead of reading the internet and shopping. That's a super spec, and you probably don't need it to be any better.

If you want a wheel upgrade, there are a lot of good choices that will be lighter than what you have that cost less than $1000. Here is just one example, which I chose because I have this wheelset. There are many others. https://www.rolwheels.com/rol_dhuez_wheels.php

The wheels you picked out are absolute top of the line, very very expEnsive. There is no reason for that if you are not racing, and even then not at a beginner level. You don't need ceramic bearings, carbon bars, you don't need your bike to achieve a certain weight so you can post a picture of the scale on the internet. What does it weigh now, 16.5 pounds? Less probably. It's fine. It's already light.

Stop bugging the poor guys at the shop and go for a bike ride.
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