Thanks again for all the responses. I had been considering a BD bike but from what I've read other places their frames, wheels and tires are usually poor quality, that and I can't test "fit" before I buy. As a noob a LBS sounds like the way to go, even if I have to spend an extra couple bills.

Titanium stem bolts

Fit (which you have to get right in the first place). Then keep upgrading wheels.

In what way? Flex, friction?

An external bearing bb might well reduce from flexing, but as far as reducing friction (which your post seems to be aiming at) I'm having trouble believing there's any meaningful difference.

First, bb bearing friction make up a miniscule fraction of the resistance to moving the bike forward.

Second, old fashion cup and cone bb's actually have lower friction than modern sealed, external bearing bb's. Thus, the Tange bb likely had at least comparable, or even lower friction than the Chorus.

To the extent you noticed a night and day difference, that was not a placebo effect, the Tange was likely shot, out of adjustment, or in need of cleaning and regreasing.

Money...money is the most important component. Without money you won't be able to make any changes no matter how important you think it is. Have money, throw money at problem, problem solved! :innocent:

The quality of their frames, wheels and tires are more than fine. That's not really a fair grounds to critique a BD bike.

The areas where you do have to pay notice though:
- Looks. Those are some old-school looks. Like 10 years old in most cases, and even their most updated models are lagging the market by 4-5 years.
- Can't ride it before you get it. This is usually a legit deal-breaker for newbs who don't know exactly what geometry they'll prefer
- It's online. So if you don't like it you have to ship it back.

But their parts are legit - they will be better than any LBS bike you pay for the exact same price. (If you pay for 105 at the LBS, you'll get a true all-ultegra mix on BD for the same price.) I'm def not a staunch supporter, but I've seen them go through the ringer in terms of people trying to discredit their bikes, but for sure in the last 2-3 years, those complaints are few and far in between. The VAST majority of BD buyers end up fine.

Depends.

Most important thing: Make sure it's a bike that you love, so that you will want to ride it! Love the way it looks; feels and fits! A bike that you can get excited about.

Level of the components means next to nothing!

My first real road bike was a BD (VERY good value for the money) with Shimano 2300 and after I figured out how to do the initial adjustments, it functioned flawlessly for years. I put thousands of miles on that bike and was very happy with it.

I'd say that one thing to check for, being you're in SF, is to make sure the bike has low gearing, so you can make it up those hills. But component level is the LAST thing you need to worry about. Ride all the bikes in your price range, and get the one that feels the best and that you like the most.