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Do Deeper Carbon Wheels Require Truing More Often?

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Do Deeper Carbon Wheels Require Truing More Often?

Old 06-26-13, 10:57 AM
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Do Deeper Carbon Wheels Require Truing More Often?

I have a few different wheels varying from 32-58mm. It seems my 58mm (zipp 404) requires truing every 150/200 miles while my others... I never touch them... Do deeper wheels require more truing? Or if it requires it more often is it a sign of additional issues with the wheel?
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Old 06-26-13, 10:59 AM
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The need for constant truing speaks to a poorly done build or issues in the wheel that were caused through a poor build.
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Old 06-26-13, 11:02 AM
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If anything, deep sectioned carbon rims should require less truing because of the stiffness of the rim.

Somethings wrong with those wheels.
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Old 06-26-13, 11:40 AM
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Gonna guess your weight is above what they are designed for but below what they say their limit is. Welcome to the Zipp zone.

To answer your question - no. Evenly tensioned wheels should not come untrue as long as the rim and spoke count combination is adequate for the rider and the riding conditions barring gross misuse/large impacts on obstacles, etc.
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Old 06-26-13, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Gonna guess your weight is above what they are designed for but below what they say their limit is. Welcome to the Zipp zone.

To answer your question - no. Evenly tensioned wheels should not come untrue as long as the rim and spoke count combination is adequate for the rider and the riding conditions barring gross misuse/large impacts on obstacles, etc.
Hmm the website max weight for the 404 is 250... I am right at 205... The chip seal out here sucks, but I avoid pot holes and such pretty well. Should I bring it in to my LBS or send it in to Zipp? I had the LBS true it twice before I started doing it myself... If I go LBS, what should I tell them to do with it aside from truing it again?

Considering getting them trued and trading them in on Boyd's or ENVE's...
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Old 06-26-13, 12:37 PM
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Before truing it again, even out the spoke tension first, then true it. Most shops just give the wheel to a guy who twists the relevant spokes to make the rim straight, but if the wheel is going out of true every 200miles, you don't have even spoke tension. It might be an indication that the rim is in the process of failing.
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Old 06-26-13, 12:39 PM
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Yep, you can keep truing until the cows come home, it ain't gonna help.

My money is on uneven tension!

And at 205#, you shouldn't have problems with 58mm wheels weight-wise.
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Old 06-26-13, 01:34 PM
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In agreement with others (woo-hoo!) I say that the wheel needs to be retensioned. And as said above, that is not a job for most LBSs. Only a real wheel builder has the commitment to do it right. Most LBS wrenches will just fake it. Send it to Zipp for a complete redo if you need it to be free or have a wheel builder do it if you don't mind paying. If there is a good wheel builder where you live, the difference in shipping and convenience could be worth it. Plus the value of a good relationship with a custom wheel builder should not be underestimated. Just ask Bianchi10!
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Old 06-26-13, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed19
And at 205#, you shouldn't have problems with 58mm wheels weight-wise.
This is correct....if the corresponding spoke count is also correct. Rims provide the strength and stiffness of the wheel system, but can only do so when appropriately supported by the correct spoke count. We can argue about spoke count until the cows come home, but my track record on build durability, and my constant stream of customers looking to repair or replace their destroyed/distressed Zipps have left me confident in my choices.
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Old 06-26-13, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
This is correct....if the corresponding spoke count is also correct. Rims provide the strength and stiffness of the wheel system, but can only do so when appropriately supported by the correct spoke count. We can argue about spoke count until the cows come home, but my track record on build durability, and my constant stream of customers looking to repair or replace their destroyed/distressed Zipps have left me confident in my choices.
What's the actual weight they can handle, just out of curiosity?
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Old 06-26-13, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
What's the actual weight they can handle, just out of curiosity?
350lbs. We have 808's on our tandem, albeit with 24/28 spokes.
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Old 06-26-13, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
What's the actual weight they can handle, just out of curiosity?
It's a question without a frame of reference. If you are asking how much weight a Zipp 404 can handle then go ask Zipp. Every rider and riding style is different. No one has asked why this rider had to have his wheels trued in the first place. Yes - the truing in shops is crap and there is definitely a tension imbalance now, but in order to necessitate the original visit for truing one of the following must have happened:

1. OP got a bum build from Zipp.
2. Rim has an issue.
3. OP just brought it in asking for it to be trued thinking that was just standard maintenance that should be done - thus killing the wheel's performance by putting it into the hand of a shop rat with no understanding of the role that tension plays in a wheel.
4. The OP hit something unreasonably big or harsh
5. The OP and his riding style and weight are not a good match for the build, regardless of what the literature says.
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Old 06-26-13, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
350lbs. We have 808's on our tandem, albeit with 24/28 spokes.
Yup - carbon rims can be extremely strong....when they have the correct support.
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Old 06-26-13, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
It's a question without a frame of reference. If you are asking how much weight a Zipp 404 can handle then go ask Zipp. Every rider and riding style is different. No one has asked why this rider had to have his wheels trued in the first place. Yes - the truing in shops is crap and there is definitely a tension imbalance now, but in order to necessitate the original visit for truing one of the following must have happened:

1. OP got a bum build from Zipp.
2. Rim has an issue.
3. OP just brought it in asking for it to be trued thinking that was just standard maintenance that should be done - thus killing the wheel's performance by putting it into the hand of a shop rat with no understanding of the role that tension plays in a wheel.
4. The OP hit something unreasonably big or harsh
5. The OP and his riding style and weight are not a good match for the build, regardless of what the literature says.
Your comment:

"Gonna guess your weight is above what they are designed for but below what they say their limit is. Welcome to the Zipp zone."

made me think there was a known range where you expected this to occur, and I was just curious what it was.
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Old 06-26-13, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Your comment:

"Gonna guess your weight is above what they are designed for but below what they say their limit is. Welcome to the Zipp zone."

made me think there was a known range where you expected this to occur, and I was just curious what it was.
yup.

5. The OP and his riding style and weight are not a good match for the build, regardless of what the literature says.
Asking me to go on record in a public forum stating what weight range and riding styles I believe to be above what will perform well on a Zipp 404 is asking me to subject myself to litigation.

If I were to say what I tend to recommend for my wheels, quite simply once a rider starts getting to 180 and above they weigh more than what most common components are designed for in order to achieve best performance. Depending on their use I will easily begin recommending 24/28 spoking.

Like I said though - a lot depends on the rider and their riding style.

If they are triathletes it doesn't matter because they don't actually do anything with their wheels except ride them in a forward direction.

The number of spokes in a wheel has the largest negative impact on aerodynamics and weight of the system. This is why most every company out there sells wheels with too few spokes for the riders riding them. So much so many have resorted to these sub-par spoke counts as a sort of "standard"...."well everyone else is that drilling"...

.....they also sell the exact same wheel to 120 lb cyclists as they do to 240 lb cyclists. It doesn't take a genius to realize that it's either extremely overbuilt for the lighter cyclist or extremely underbuilt for the heavier cyclist. Not too many are going to lean towards overbuilding. It doesn't lend itself to being sexy in a catalog or on a spec sheet.
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Old 06-26-13, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
If anything, deep sectioned carbon rims should require less truing because of the stiffness of the rim.

Somethings wrong with those wheels.
+1.

I have two sets of zipps and they're both strong and fine in the staying true dept. I'm a husky 235# too.
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Old 06-27-13, 03:49 AM
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Take a close look at your rim and hub. Perhaps a small crack is starting, causing the spokes to become loose.

Different situatin, but I just had my Zipp hub break. Racing and I heard a pop and thought I broke a spoke. After the finish, I saw all the spokes were still tight. Look at the hub and it cracked at the spoke opening.... First broken hub for me. Bummer
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