Serotta News and it is not good...
08-01-13, 05:35 AM
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Serotta News and it is not good...
08-01-13, 05:44 AM
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out walking the earth
yeah, I know those guys. It's too bad, though indications are that there might be another restructuring in the works.
08-01-13, 07:41 AM
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That would be good. They make great bikes, but they made their business model almost impossible to work with. When told this, it had little impact.
When your orders are way off, there's usually a reason.
When your orders are way off, there's usually a reason.
08-01-13, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
they made their business model almost impossible to work with.
08-01-13, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dbf73
how so?
08-01-13, 08:22 AM
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Also I'm thinking there's an ever shrinking market for what they're selling. As molded frames get better, why pay big dollars for a tubed and lugged CF frame?
And the demand for high dollar Ti frames has to be fairly small.
And the demand for high dollar Ti frames has to be fairly small.
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08-01-13, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Also I'm thinking there's an ever shrinking market for what they're selling. As molded frames get better, why pay big dollars for a tubed and lugged CF frame?
And the demand for high dollar Ti frames has to be fairly small.
And the demand for high dollar Ti frames has to be fairly small.
I was scouring the nets and read stuff on other forums (Paceline is the "new" Serotta forum, they used to have one attached to their website) and there's not much good out there about any of this. Another thread on that same forum has a note from Ben Serotta.
They make great bikes, but $$$$$$.
08-01-13, 08:53 AM
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Whatever restructuring does happen, the quotes in the article make it sound like the guys at Serotta are feeling more than a little betrayed; maybe the company name sticks around, but I don't know if they move forward with it.
08-01-13, 09:01 AM
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Sad. One of our LBSs here ( a good one -- did my pro fit for a custom order) apparently dropped them, partly because of the complexity and partly because of the pricing. Guy who did my fit commented on how my bike (Ira Ryan, lugged steel) was less expensive than an equivalent Serrotta, and just as nice if not more so.
When I was looking for a custom builder I spoke to them. They were great, but I got lost in all the options, and the pricing was out of line with others.
When I was looking for a custom builder I spoke to them. They were great, but I got lost in all the options, and the pricing was out of line with others.
08-01-13, 09:10 AM
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Serotta was one of the first to do oversized steel frames. I almost got a Colorado II back in 1989. Ended up getting a Paramount OS, which used similar oversized tubing.
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08-01-13, 09:12 AM
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Sounds like an Asian manufactured Serotta is coming down the pipeline. I know a couple folks up in Saratoga and they have said the business has been in decline for several years. I haven't seen Ben Serotta in 15 years, but having known him personally and known his passion for his brand and the sport, I doubt this is how he wanted things to turn out.
08-01-13, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by velonomad
Sounds like an Asian manufactured Serotta is coming down the pipeline.
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08-01-13, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by velonomad
they have said the business has been in decline for several years.
The business model doesn't work. There's only so many dentists.
08-01-13, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Also I'm thinking there's an ever shrinking market for what they're selling. As molded frames get better, why pay big dollars for a tubed and lugged CF frame?
And the demand for high dollar Ti frames has to be fairly small.
And the demand for high dollar Ti frames has to be fairly small.
Don't want to turn this into a carbon fiber versus Ti thing, but there is so much more a designer can do with molding carbon fiber which is a better material in terms of strength to weight and damping.
As to the custom geometry thing...vastly over rated if not abused. Only likely 2-3% of the bike riding public would need a custom frame but many think they do or want their own geometry. I have seen tons of Serottas with a big stack of spacers and upturned stem...didn't get the memo on how to properly fit a bike.
08-01-13, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sbxx1985
I'm not surprised. They seemed on the verge for a while. Their main local dealer dropped them a few years ago over screwed up orders and delays.
The business model doesn't work. There's only so many dentists.
The business model doesn't work. There's only so many dentists.
08-01-13, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
+1 The signature point. Boutique company with limited resources and niche product gets eaten by the big guys.
Don't want to turn this into a carbon fiber versus Ti thing, but there is so much more a designer can do with molding carbon fiber which is a better material in terms of strength to weight and damping.
Don't want to turn this into a carbon fiber versus Ti thing, but there is so much more a designer can do with molding carbon fiber which is a better material in terms of strength to weight and damping.
08-01-13, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
+1 The signature point. Boutique company with limited resources and niche product gets eaten by the big guys.
Don't want to turn this into a carbon fiber versus Ti thing, but there is so much more a designer can do with molding carbon fiber which is a better material in terms of strength to weight and damping.
As to the custom geometry thing...vastly over rated if not abused. Only likely 2-3% of the bike riding public would need a custom frame but many think they do or want their own geometry. I have seen tons of Serottas with a big stack of spacers and upturned stem...didn't get the memo on how to properly fit a bike.
Don't want to turn this into a carbon fiber versus Ti thing, but there is so much more a designer can do with molding carbon fiber which is a better material in terms of strength to weight and damping.
As to the custom geometry thing...vastly over rated if not abused. Only likely 2-3% of the bike riding public would need a custom frame but many think they do or want their own geometry. I have seen tons of Serottas with a big stack of spacers and upturned stem...didn't get the memo on how to properly fit a bike.
08-01-13, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by velonomad
Sounds like an Asian manufactured Serotta is coming down the pipeline. I know a couple folks up in Saratoga and they have said the business has been in decline for several years. I haven't seen Ben Serotta in 15 years, but having known him personally and known his passion for his brand and the sport, I doubt this is how he wanted things to turn out.
08-01-13, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
One thing I think we agree on is that Ti lugs and carbon tubes are the worst use of both materials. I bet you could build a much better bike the other way around. But never mind that. Monocoque CF is clearly superior to anything you can glue or screw together from lugs and tubes. Why do (a few) people pay so much for such an ungainly frame design. Not even considering I think the aesthetics are horrendous.
Like this? You should see these live.
08-01-13, 10:24 AM
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The problem is, everywhere you look, there is someone doing it better than Serotta. They are just stuck building great bikes but not very technologically advanced ones.
I'd rather get a Firefly for a Ti bike or a Parlee Z-Zero for a custom carbon bike.
I'd rather get a Firefly for a Ti bike or a Parlee Z-Zero for a custom carbon bike.
08-01-13, 10:27 AM
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NooOOooOoOoOooooo! Serotta was on my n+1 list if I get back into the swing heavily. I could actually drive up there from here to get fitted.
08-01-13, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Like this? You should see these live.
08-01-13, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Like this? You should see these live.
08-01-13, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
One thing I think we agree on is that Ti lugs and carbon tubes are the worst use of both materials. I bet you could build a much better bike the other way around. But never mind that. Monocoque CF is clearly superior to anything you can glue or screw together from lugs and tubes. Why do (a few) people pay so much for such an ungainly frame design. Not even considering I think the aesthetics are horrendous.
Many have a romantic affinity for lugs because they were on one of the favorite bikes of their youth for example. I personally have no real aversion to lugged anything...but do recognize that lugs are redundant structure as do you. Tech has marched on.
