Speedplay vs SPD-SL vs LOOK vs the World...Speedplay is SUPERIOR!
08-04-13, 11:05 PM
#76
Senior Member
Nobody really does. It is a consequence of a certain type of pedal design. You can fix this, but it comes with tradeoffs in other areas (undersized bearings, complicated cleat, etc.).
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
08-04-13, 11:06 PM
#77
Senior Member
Since the problem is pressure on the balls of his feet, then yes, moving the pressure elsewhere might be valid alternative. What do you suggest, he HTFU? 
First off, KOPS is not a holy grail, just a guideline. If I listened to people like you, I would be a cripple with ****ed up achilles tendons due to the cleat being too far forward. Secondly, the platform is as big as the cleat, which is roughly the same as look and spd-sl (I ran both of those for over a year each, so I know what their strengths and weaknesses are); I cannot vouch for other systems as I have not used them. Thirdly, while there are stiffer shoes out there, I would posit that Genius 6.6's are plenty stiff enough. In fact, it might be too stiff. I had to give up my s-works as they turned out to be too stiff for me so I went to a slightly less stiff shoe and while I am not completely out of the woods yet, my achilles are doing better.
First off, KOPS is not a holy grail, just a guideline. If I listened to people like you, I would be a cripple with ****ed up achilles tendons due to the cleat being too far forward. Secondly, the platform is as big as the cleat, which is roughly the same as look and spd-sl (I ran both of those for over a year each, so I know what their strengths and weaknesses are); I cannot vouch for other systems as I have not used them. Thirdly, while there are stiffer shoes out there, I would posit that Genius 6.6's are plenty stiff enough. In fact, it might be too stiff. I had to give up my s-works as they turned out to be too stiff for me so I went to a slightly less stiff shoe and while I am not completely out of the woods yet, my achilles are doing better.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
08-04-13, 11:10 PM
#78
Still can't climb
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the one sided problem woud be a lot less of a problem if the pedal can stay horizontal. why dos it have to hang butt end down?
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08-04-13, 11:15 PM
#79
Senior Member
This is actually what makes single sided doable. You hook the front of the pedal with the cleat as you move your foot forward and step into it. As I said before, there is a bit of a learning curve, but once climbed, it's not really much of a problem.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
08-04-13, 11:16 PM
#80
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I get that, though single sided has been kind of demonized by people unwilling to climb a little learning curve. The small, relatively unreliable bearings; the complicated cleat; and the "like ice" float reasons to tolerate the single sided pedals.
The rides I care about only have me clipping in maybe once or twice an hour. I understand that for some people though, this is an overriding concern.
The rides I care about only have me clipping in maybe once or twice an hour. I understand that for some people though, this is an overriding concern.
IME, your concerns about the bearings and complexity of the cleat are overstated. I've got thousands (over ten thousand on one pair) of miles on Zeros with the original bearings. And the "complexity" of Speedplay's cleat doesn't look so scary when you realize that it's just the spring part which other systems put in the pedal. For me, they're much more durable than the plastic Keo cleats they replaced.
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08-04-13, 11:17 PM
#81
Still can't climb
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ohhhhh..i've been doing it wrong all these years.
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coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
08-05-13, 12:04 AM
#82
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The next major development in clipless pedals was Shimano's SPD (Shimano Pedaling Dynamics) pedal system. Whereas Look cleats are large and protrude from the sole of the shoe, SPD cleats are small and could be fitted in a recess in the sole, making it possible for walking[/COLOR]
-Great idea, lets improve downhill snow skiing technology and make it easier to walk around in(you guys skii on your bikes right?)
-Great idea, lets improve downhill snow skiing technology and make it easier to walk around in(you guys skii on your bikes right?)
Originally Posted by Shimagnolo 
So the original post has text about the SPD *mtn* system, but then shows pics of the SPD-SL *road* system.
08-05-13, 08:07 AM
#83
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I use Look pedals and made my choice because my LBS sold them. They work fine and single sided entry just has never bothered me. With the butt end sitting lower, I just cram my foot into the front of the pedal and push down and I'm clipped in.
If I was going to change pedal systems, I would probably go with Dura Ace pedals as I have never heard anything bad about them, they look cool and they apparently do what pedals should do. But to do that, something needs to happen to my Looks and that just hasn't happened yet in over 4 years.
If I was going to change pedal systems, I would probably go with Dura Ace pedals as I have never heard anything bad about them, they look cool and they apparently do what pedals should do. But to do that, something needs to happen to my Looks and that just hasn't happened yet in over 4 years.
08-05-13, 08:15 AM
#84
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Speedplay cleats require too much damn maintenance to keep them quiet, and I've also had 2 sets of cleats fail on me.
08-05-13, 09:11 AM
#85
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Speedplay likes to harass people with baseless lawsuits:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...4fe48bbd8c191b
IMO, they are despicable and will never get my $$$.
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...4fe48bbd8c191b
IMO, they are despicable and will never get my $$$.
08-05-13, 09:38 AM
#86
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One sided pedal entry. Not hard... But I guess I have tons of practice getting into pedals with clips.
08-05-13, 10:55 AM
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Unless you are Mark Cavendish... who doesn't use Speedplays.
I use Look pedals, and have considered changing over to speedplay many times. I think they make the most compelling case for pedals (although I haven't tried them). I have a feeling I will eventually switch.
However, I wish I had the time back for reading this thread. Many valid points, but most of it gets lost in the typical DB ridiculousness that is BF.
I use Look pedals, and have considered changing over to speedplay many times. I think they make the most compelling case for pedals (although I haven't tried them). I have a feeling I will eventually switch.
However, I wish I had the time back for reading this thread. Many valid points, but most of it gets lost in the typical DB ridiculousness that is BF.
08-05-13, 11:26 AM
#89
Senior Member
Speedplay's have the largest platform area, but its really a bit misleading. The area is concentrated in a single circular spot. The same area distributed across a large platform would offer more stability and better distribution through a stiff shoe. The 2nd moment of the contact area is also a very important parameter, and Speedplay is basically the worst by that measurement since its center concentrated.
Consider the following. Cut the Speedplay contact area in half by removing a checkboard pattern on the platform. You'd probably never notice, simply because a stiff shoe will distribute the force easily. The peak force would only go up by a small fraction. I'm sure you could prove it with an FEA analysis.
I don't want to come off as bashing Speedplay here. Their pedals are very nice, lightweight and function well. By I find their marketing of contact area highly misleading.
Consider the following. Cut the Speedplay contact area in half by removing a checkboard pattern on the platform. You'd probably never notice, simply because a stiff shoe will distribute the force easily. The peak force would only go up by a small fraction. I'm sure you could prove it with an FEA analysis.
I don't want to come off as bashing Speedplay here. Their pedals are very nice, lightweight and function well. By I find their marketing of contact area highly misleading.
08-05-13, 11:56 AM
#90
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Thanks Brian and deep_cycle. Will take the shoes in when I see my Podiatrist. Yes, the cleats are all the way back.
Stiff shoe - According to Sidi, the 6.6 shoes only deflect 1.4 mm on their rigidity test, in which a 50 kg (110 lb) weight is suspended from one end of the sole. That is the stiffiest shoe, in wide, that I could find. The combination of the stiff sole and the orthotic has really helped. There is a the slight ridge built into the orthotic, just behind the ball of the foot that helps the ball of foot relax.
Stiff shoe - According to Sidi, the 6.6 shoes only deflect 1.4 mm on their rigidity test, in which a 50 kg (110 lb) weight is suspended from one end of the sole. That is the stiffiest shoe, in wide, that I could find. The combination of the stiff sole and the orthotic has really helped. There is a the slight ridge built into the orthotic, just behind the ball of the foot that helps the ball of foot relax.
Last edited by VaultGuru; 08-05-13 at 12:02 PM.
08-05-13, 12:19 PM
#91
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Speedplay likes to harass people with baseless lawsuits:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...4fe48bbd8c191b
IMO, they are despicable and will never get my $$$.
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...4fe48bbd8c191b
IMO, they are despicable and will never get my $$$.
08-05-13, 12:22 PM
#92
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Shall we now discuss safety? I like to be safe and efficient on my bike. When it comes to cornering, nothing beats stack height and clearance!
I will compare the Ti versions because otherwise it gets a little confusing and people get hissy fits over the facts(facts don't lie kids)
Speedplay Zero Ti
Weight(pair): 164g
Engagement: Double Sided
Zero Float Lockout: YES
Stack Height on 4 hole mount: 11.5 mm
Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 8.5 mm
Float range: 15 degrees
LOOK Keo TI
Weight(pair): 193g
Engagement: Single Sided
Zero Float Lockout: Yes but have to get different cleats
Stack Height on 4 hole mount: NOPE, only 3 hole mounting!
Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 17.1mm
Float range: 10 degrees
SPD-SL
Weight(pair): 279g
Engagement: Single Sided
Zero Float Lockout: Yes but have to get different cleats
Stack Height on 4 hole mount: YES
Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 13.7mm
Float range: 6 degrees
So what have we learned from raw data above? Oh that's right! LOOK has epic stack height. SPD-SL has even higher stack height and extreme weight.
Have fun cornering in criteriums with terrible pedal clearance on LOOK + SPD-SL! Don't descend down switchbacks too fast either!
I will compare the Ti versions because otherwise it gets a little confusing and people get hissy fits over the facts(facts don't lie kids)
Speedplay Zero Ti
Weight(pair): 164g
Engagement: Double Sided
Zero Float Lockout: YES
Stack Height on 4 hole mount: 11.5 mm
Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 8.5 mm
Float range: 15 degrees
LOOK Keo TI
Weight(pair): 193g
Engagement: Single Sided
Zero Float Lockout: Yes but have to get different cleats
Stack Height on 4 hole mount: NOPE, only 3 hole mounting!
Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 17.1mm
Float range: 10 degrees
SPD-SL
Weight(pair): 279g
Engagement: Single Sided
Zero Float Lockout: Yes but have to get different cleats
Stack Height on 4 hole mount: YES
Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 13.7mm
Float range: 6 degrees
So what have we learned from raw data above? Oh that's right! LOOK has epic stack height. SPD-SL has even higher stack height and extreme weight.
Have fun cornering in criteriums with terrible pedal clearance on LOOK + SPD-SL! Don't descend down switchbacks too fast either!
Good lord.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-05-13 at 12:35 PM.
08-05-13, 12:28 PM
#93
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Maybe a one sided pedal is simply too much for some. Could be why Speedplay was invented.
08-05-13, 12:32 PM
#95
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So in this thread we learn that people anecdotally say things like "the shop tells me they get a lot of returns" and "i have friends who ride a lot and they go through 2-3 cleats a year".
No facts were delivered on said day. Instead they continue to ride cleats designed for skiis.
No facts were delivered on said day. Instead they continue to ride cleats designed for skiis.
When Hinault was testing these pedals before they went into production (Looks) was he skiing too? I'll have to go "LOOk" for those pictures.
08-05-13, 12:44 PM
#97
Senior Member
Your training wheels prevent that. I have hits on Speedplays one @ 27 MPH. Launched the rear for ~ 30' and recovered in a slide.
08-05-13, 03:13 PM
#98
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08-05-13, 03:31 PM
#99
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I don't think anything is superior to anything else in cycling. I think pedals are a personal choice like saddles. Ride what you like. It is great to have the choice.
08-06-13, 05:35 PM
#100
Eric C.
Thanks Brian and deep_cycle. Will take the shoes in when I see my Podiatrist. Yes, the cleats are all the way back.
Stiff shoe - According to Sidi, the 6.6 shoes only deflect 1.4 mm on their rigidity test, in which a 50 kg (110 lb) weight is suspended from one end of the sole. That is the stiffiest shoe, in wide, that I could find. The combination of the stiff sole and the orthotic has really helped. There is a the slight ridge built into the orthotic, just behind the ball of the foot that helps the ball of foot relax.
Stiff shoe - According to Sidi, the 6.6 shoes only deflect 1.4 mm on their rigidity test, in which a 50 kg (110 lb) weight is suspended from one end of the sole. That is the stiffiest shoe, in wide, that I could find. The combination of the stiff sole and the orthotic has really helped. There is a the slight ridge built into the orthotic, just behind the ball of the foot that helps the ball of foot relax.