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Colnago C59 or Pinarello Dogma ....?

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Colnago C59 or Pinarello Dogma ....?

Old 08-06-13, 01:46 PM
  #26  
knobd
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I recently had a similar decision, albeit at the entry level for each company you're comparing. In my case it was the Colnago Ace vs. the Pinarello FP Due (both 2012's). Each had 105. I liked the looks of the Colnago more but could not justify it being $500 more than the Due ($2600 vs. $2100). I don't have a problem with the looks of the Pinarello and actually after owning it for awhile really don't think it looks that radical. However, if they were both the same price I probably would have gotten the Colnago. Despite this I have no regrets whatsoever. I'm finding the FP Due to be the perfect entry level carbon bike with a stiff but smooth ride and incredibly stable handling.
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Old 08-06-13, 06:48 PM
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Pretty good problem to have. I would personally choose the Dogma as I like the way it looks better, AND, you have more color options. I don't care for any of the Colnago paint schemes. With that said, the Colnago is a classic looking bike. 10 years from now, if you update the components to the latest, it will look as good as it does today, while the Dogma may look good, OR may look like some of the crazy Kestrel frames Tri frames that are around.

It does look like I'm in the minority though.

P.S. Is it just me or should both Pinarello and Colnago make some investment into their website. If I didn't know anything about either bike, I'd never buy either brand. Neither knows how to properly showcase the beauty that is their bikes on their website...
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Old 08-06-13, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Also, both of these frames are unforgiving hard-core racing frames. They are not the best choice unless you're doing hard core racing, IMO. The Pina in particular is just brutal.

I completely disagree with you, most of our sales of C59's do not go to hard core racers and they're more than happy with the level of vertical compliance they receive. I would be willing to kind of agree with you on the Dogma as it's fit is far reachier and the extra weight gives it a stiffer and slightly harsher ride. That being said I would not consider either of the bikes to be "BRUTAL." If the only people that should be buying C59's and Dogmas were hardcore racers, the only people they would be selling the frames to would be team Novo Nordisk & Europcar!
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Old 08-06-13, 08:27 PM
  #29  
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Yay I am ordering c59 size 45 like 5 month ago from my lbs, they just calling me yesterday that my frame just arrive. before I have same option like you are between c59 or dogma. But a lot people around my team suggesting c59 because is easy pedalling, comfort and lighter it will fit me better because my weak power lol. I will photo later when I go to store later on.
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Old 08-06-13, 08:42 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I guess the C59, but I don't really get the idea of these insanely expensive mass production frames. The Dogma in particular has ludicrous pricing. You can get something local, cool and custom for less than either of these. Calfee Dragonfly or Indy Fab XS are both about the same price and I would easily prefer either.
While lugged carbon has a cool classic look, wouldn't a full on shaped (or whatever the proper word is) and laid up frame be better overall? Although I guess the Colnago is also lugged or at least it looks that way.
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Old 08-06-13, 09:01 PM
  #31  
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You're thinking of a monoqocue frame, and it really depends how the frames are made. I've ridden plenty of monoqocue frames that are far less stiff than lugged carbon. The C59 is very stiff and the lugged frame not only looks great, when made correctly is very stiff, enables relatively affordable customization that doesn't involve the company creating a new frame mold and it also makes repair of tubing easier. Monoqocue frames definitely offer the ability to customize tube shape for aerodynamics as well as aesthetics but it always comes down to the skills and care the builder takes to lay up the swatches of carbon fiber.
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Old 08-06-13, 09:54 PM
  #32  
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My C59 is a smoother ride than my Synapse, particularly the front fork which is nothing short of magic. Just sayin.

The C59 really is a sweet ride and my choice for all rides exept night rides and rain rides simply becasue my other bike is set up for all that stuff.
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Old 08-06-13, 10:31 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
You misunderstand me. My point is not "value for money", my point is that you can get something handbuilt in North America... even custom made to your specs and finish for the amount of money the two bikes you list here cost. I totally understand wanting a dream bike. For me a dream bike isn't something that, while expensive, you order like you would a dishwasher. Any joker with a fat wallet can go to a bike store and get a $15K Fred-mobile in 15 minutes. Personally, I want the full "meet with the framebuilder in the chic office/rustic mystique-filled barn, get measured, pick paint colors, discuss pedaling style" treatment. You wind up with something that's exactly what you want and uniquely represents your particular tastes. At this price point, you have that opportunity.

Also, both of these frames are unforgiving hard-core racing frames. They are not the best choice unless you're doing hard core racing, IMO. The Pina in particular is just brutal.
Sorry, but I disagree completely. The point here is that "what I want exactly" is a Colnago or a Pinarello. When I bought my Mercedes I wanted a Mercedes, nothing else, and so on. Also, your comment about any "joker" with a fat wallet is just plain stupid. If I can afford the very best and wish to purchase it, why does that make me a "joker"?

About the bikes being "unforgiving", so what? I will use the bike to go riding with my wife and we will probably average less than 15mph and have a blast doing it. If the bikes become uncomfortable, we will just drive them home in the Mercedes and take out our Madone/Synapse bikes for the next ride.
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Old 08-06-13, 10:36 PM
  #34  
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People take this compliance thing WAY too literally IMHO. Is a Madone smoother and more vertically compliant than a Dogma, yes. If you're out riding your Dogma are you going to say 50 miles into a ride "OMG THIS IS UNBEARABLE", very unlikely.

I ride a Cannondale CAAD10 spec'd out with Dura Ace and custom wheels by choice, is it the most compliant, no. Did it stop me from completing the Everest Challenge, absolutely not.


Get your C59 and enjoy the **** out of it!
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Old 08-06-13, 10:56 PM
  #35  
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Easy choice for me. C59 all the way. I really want one, someday I will. I like the lugged frame and gotta have the Campy electronics. No doubt 're Dogma is an outstanding bike but aesthetics are not pleasing to me. I really think the C59 is a well round package. Since I am dreaming may as well have the disc brakes.
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Old 08-06-13, 11:04 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by nastystang View Post
Easy choice for me. C59 all the way. I really want one, someday I will. I like the lugged frame and gotta have the Campy electronics. No doubt 're Dogma is an outstanding bike but aesthetics are not pleasing to me. I really think the C59 is a well round package. Since I am dreaming may as well have the disc brakes.
You read my mind exactly!
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Old 08-06-13, 11:31 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I guess the C59, but I don't really get the idea of these insanely expensive mass production frames. The Dogma in particular has ludicrous pricing. You can get something local, cool and custom for less than either of these. Calfee Dragonfly or Indy Fab XS are both about the same price and I would easily prefer either.
If you are suggesting that the C59 is mass produced, you may want to check again. The C59 is handmade in Italy, in Colnago's workshop. Only 16 frames a day are made during a production run. That is hardly "mass produced."

To the OP, I highly recommend the C59. The frame is extremely responsive and comfortable. I am an "older," short, overweight, diabetic, asthmatic rider, but the C59 is such a good climber that even someone like me can enjoy climbing the hills around my home in So. California. There has never been a time, while riding my C59, that I have wanted the ride to end. On the contrary, at the end of almost every ride I find that I can still ride some more and not feel tired. The frame just does not "beat you up" like other frames I have ridden.

As others have already mentioned here, the C59 has a real nice, classic look (especially with the more "conservative" color schemes). I really like the way my C59 looks. Finally, if "handmade made in Italy" is important to you (it is important to me, my Bottecchia was handmade in Italy) then the C59 is your bike of choice

Here is a picture of my C59 soon after it was built (June 2012). Since that time I have changed the brake hoods to white and I have fitted the bike with Fulcrum Racing Zero Comp. Ltd. Ed. wheels.

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Old 08-06-13, 11:35 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Peiper1 View Post
Sorry, but I disagree completely. The point here is that "what I want exactly" is a Colnago or a Pinarello. When I bought my Mercedes I wanted a Mercedes, nothing else, and so on. Also, your comment about any "joker" with a fat wallet is just plain stupid. If I can afford the very best and wish to purchase it, why does that make me a "joker"?

About the bikes being "unforgiving", so what? I will use the bike to go riding with my wife and we will probably average less than 15mph and have a blast doing it. If the bikes become uncomfortable, we will just drive them home in the Mercedes and take out our Madone/Synapse bikes for the next ride.
OP, if you already own a Benz, then you NEED to get the C59


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Old 08-07-13, 02:41 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by fauxto nick View Post
You're thinking of a monoqocue frame, and it really depends how the frames are made. I've ridden plenty of monoqocue frames that are far less stiff than lugged carbon. The C59 is very stiff and the lugged frame not only looks great, when made correctly is very stiff, enables relatively affordable customization that doesn't involve the company creating a new frame mold and it also makes repair of tubing easier. Monoqocue frames definitely offer the ability to customize tube shape for aerodynamics as well as aesthetics but it always comes down to the skills and care the builder takes to lay up the swatches of carbon fiber.
Thanks. But I thought one of the reasons for using lugs is to make custom frames - cut tubes and insert into lugs. With a mass produced frame (the c59 is not custom so it's more akin to mass produced regardless of numbers made) is it more a question of aesthetics? Might help with the handmade aspect but aren't all frames technically handmade or do machines now lay up the carbon?

Still, if I could afford one I'd get a c59 too.
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Old 08-07-13, 02:59 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
OP, if you already own a Benz, then you NEED to get the C59


Your stem is really short
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Old 08-07-13, 03:20 PM
  #41  
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Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine! Five Nine!


5! 9!
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Old 08-07-13, 03:24 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
Thanks. But I thought one of the reasons for using lugs is to make custom frames - cut tubes and insert into lugs. With a mass produced frame (the c59 is not custom so it's more akin to mass produced regardless of numbers made) is it more a question of aesthetics? Might help with the handmade aspect but aren't all frames technically handmade or do machines now lay up the carbon?

Still, if I could afford one I'd get a c59 too.
From Wiki:

Mass production is the production of large amounts of standardized products, including and especially on assembly lines. With job production and batch production it is one of the three main production methods.
The concepts of mass production are applied to various kinds of products, from fluids and particulates handled in bulk (such as food, fuel, chemicals, and mined minerals) to discrete solid parts (such as fasteners) to assemblies of such parts (such as household appliances and automobiles).
Mass production is a diverse field, but it can generally be contrasted with craft production or distributed manufacturing. It has occurred for centuries; there are examples of production methods that can best be defined as mass production that predate the Industrial Revolution. However, it has been widespread in human experience, and central to economics, only since the late 19th century.


I don't think that the C59 fits the definition of mass production.
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Old 08-07-13, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by justkeepedaling View Post
Your stem is really short
It works for me.
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Old 08-07-13, 05:27 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
I don't think that the C59 fits the definition of mass production.
Fine. Standardized production (although it looks like you can also get it custom). Point is, unless you buy custom, you get a bike that uses the same bits and pieces as it's put together and is for all intents and purposes the same as the next one off the line. Cannondale makes a limited number of CAAD10s each year but no one is arguing they are not mass produced.
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Old 08-07-13, 07:45 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Peiper1 View Post
Sorry, but I disagree completely. The point here is that "what I want exactly" is a Colnago or a Pinarello. When I bought my Mercedes I wanted a Mercedes, nothing else, and so on. Also, your comment about any "joker" with a fat wallet is just plain stupid. If I can afford the very best and wish to purchase it, why does that make me a "joker"?
I completely agree. You know what you want (or at least one of two) so you won't be satisfied with anything else. So you're down to one of two of the best bikes in the world. Tough choice. Based on my limited test rides and the classic look of the Colnago, I would go with it. You might have the bike for a long, long time (why ever get rid of it) and Colnagos never go out of style.
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Old 08-07-13, 08:06 PM
  #46  
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Just as an FYI. There are some differences between 2014 and 2013 C59 versions. If you are going electric this might be important to you.

The 2014 frames only come in one model, they function with both electronics and cables. This is good and bad, good because you can change to electric later if you decide you want cables now. The downside is the 2013 electric frames don't have cable holes on the down tube at the headset. The 2014 comes with some rather ugly plugs to fill the holes if you go electric.

The 2014 frame/fork supports 25c tires back and front

It is questionable if there is a "matte" finish for 2014

It is my understanding for 2014 the disk colors are specific to disc and the caliper colors are specific to calipers.

Just as an FYI there's a black and white team edition as seen on the tour and Mapei color scheme available which aren't on Colnago's website, similar to last years but gloss.

If you want one which is not in stock anywhere, you've got a bit of a wait. Colnago is on vacation for August.

Please but Dura-Ace on it just to make the Campy crowd mad
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Old 08-07-13, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
OP, if you already own a Benz, then you NEED to get the C59


That's awesome, mine is a 2013 Diamond White C350 with the red leather interior !! Nice bike too !!

Last edited by Peiper1; 08-07-13 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 08-07-13, 10:37 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by SANTE POLLASTRI View Post
You are in error,you may have a c59 custom made only for you,paying extra cash,obviously.
You sir, are correct. As I mentioned earlier, my wife's C59 will have to be a custom order because Colnago will only make them that way in the 45 size frame. She's happy because she can also get a custom white/mint green paint job at the same time.

Last edited by Peiper1; 08-07-13 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 08-07-13, 11:30 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by matthewk459 View Post
Please but Dura-Ace on it just to make the Campy crowd mad
You understand that whenever someone hangs Shimano parts on a Colnago, angels in heaven cry! Why would anyone want to make angels cry? I will light a candle at the Madonna de Ghisallo chapel and pray for your soul.
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Old 08-07-13, 11:34 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
You understand that whenever someone hangs Shimano parts on a Colnago, angels in heaven cry! Why would anyone want to make angels cry? I will light a candle at the Madonna de Ghisallo chapel and pray for your soul.

I'll make angels cry and enjoy my bomb proof reliable Dura Ache.
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