Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe

I think he's objecting to the claim that aerodynamic benefits of a frame (or wheels etc) are reduced if you are drafting.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Here is a link to the Cervelo white paper....

Originally Posted by Wesley36

Unless you have had a chance to actually ride one of these bikes, perhaps you should suspend your judgement about harshness. I cannot speak to the S1, the Venge or the Foil, but the S5 is not a harsh ride at all. I had concerns about the fact that it only takes 23mm tires (25 will not fit), but after about a month and a half of riding, I have no comfort complaints at all. It is not as compliant as the R3, but then again I am not taking my S5 on Paris-Roubaix type rides. On tarmac, even with rough sections, the S5 is perfectly comfortable - perhaps surprisingly comfortable.

From my POV, aero road bikes are slightly more heavy, perhaps a bit more stiff (vs compliant) than an endurance bike that is more comfort oriented, and a bit more expensive (when one buys a bike one pays for R and D as well as materials, wind tunnel time costs money). All of these differences are pretty modest, so at the end of the day, I would go for the one that puts the biggest smile on your face during a test ride.

Originally Posted by chiefDave

This.
OP if you are not racing, it does not matter. Test ride what you like and whatever feels best, and makes you happy, buy. Bring your own wheels so you are testing the frame, and not the OEM wheels. Get the fit close too and ride them back to back. Enjoy yourself, and bring a friend!

I have a very comfy cervelo R3 and an SW venge and can tell you that a venge is not super harsh. IME (test rode several S5s) the venge is less harsh and sprints better then an S5. I love the venge in crits, esp with good pavement (see the driveway in Austin Texas).

BLUFF test ride what looks good, and buy what you enjoy and if it makes you happy and keeps you on the bike having fun, buy whatever makes you happy. Good luck man!
Dave

Originally Posted by petermk

As I have stated, I mostly ride alone, so I was hoping to reduce some drag with an aero frame.



drag reduction = more speed
Correct, but the speed increase overall is slight.



My average speeds over the course of a ride are 16-17 mph, 20-22 mph on some segments.
I'm not insulting your speeds: These are slow speeds to see much if any of a benefit for an "aero" bike. I'm not fast but my best TT for a 40K was an average of 28.5mph with a Colnago road frame, Zipp solid disk rear, 20 spoke front, full tear drop helmet, aero bars and trained for it for 6 months...best I achieved was third place in the New England Regional TT in the Masters 35 class. I did see a difference with the full kit but not something I'd want to do on an everyday basis.



No



If I were to get an aero bike, I was also planning to have a professional fitting done.
This is a great idea but I'd rather have the pro fitting for a standard road bike position. It is going to be different from a full aero position which is not a lot of fun to ride in all the time.



No at the moment but I am working on it.

The money difference between the bikes is about $300, so it's no big deal. It's just that I am not sure how much harsher the ride would be over the course of 30-40 miles. The salesperson I spoke with told me if I was riding 30-40, then I shouldn't have any problems with the aero feeling less comfortable. He suggested the Wilier only if I was gonna do centuries, etc.
I agree regarding the money difference not being that big a deal. My concern is the overall ride of a standard road bike versus an "aero" designed bike.
In my opinion you would get much more value and a much better ride experience with the Wilier or a quality standard road frame. To achieve less drag and faster times a quality fitting will make a huge difference. Additionally putting together a training program that becomes part of your regular riding regimen will increase your speed by improving your physical and mental strength as well as your lung capabilities. Add a quality saddle that will allow a comfortable aero position and some good TT bars to your bike and you will be surprised at the overall and average speeds over some time to train.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Kai Winters

Originally Posted by chiefDave

OP if you are not racing, it does not matter.

Originally Posted by mpath

No one's really said much about the Wilier. The GT is more of an endurance bike, with a taller head tube for comfort. OP, is the GT spec'd with FULL Ultegra now? When they first came out a couple of years back, they kind of dummed it down with an Ultegra/FSA mix.

Originally Posted by StanSeven

This statement continues to get me. Why do people keep saying it here? If you want speed, it doesn't matter whether you race or not.

I do race (or did until a couple years ago) and some of my most competitive memories involve Saturday morning sprints against my training ride buddies. I don't doubt an aero frame and aero wheels didn't make a difference in the outcomes, race or training.

Originally Posted by I <3 Robots

I like your taste in bikes and parts.

Originally Posted by StanSeven

This statement continues to get me. Why do people keep saying it here? If you want speed, it doesn't matter whether you race or not.

I do race (or did until a couple years ago) and some of my most competitive memories involve Saturday morning sprints against my training ride buddies. I don't doubt an aero frame and aero wheels didn't make a difference in the outcomes, race or training.