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Which Campy 10 speed shifters to go with new 10 speed drivetrain?

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Which Campy 10 speed shifters to go with new 10 speed drivetrain?

Old 09-21-13, 10:56 PM
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Which Campy 10 speed shifters to go with new 10 speed drivetrain?

I've got a Campy Chorus 10 rear dérailleur, front deraileur, and 2003 square taper Record cranks for a new build. I need shifters and was looking for advice on what shifters to pair with my group- older 2003 Chorus or Record-2004 or later 10 QS chorus or record - newer Centaur 10? Which of the bunch will shift more positively and are going to last the longest?
Thanks
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Old 09-21-13, 11:58 PM
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As I understand it, any of the Campy 10 speed shifters will work for you though when I was shopping for shifters I was warned by more than one person to avoid QS shifters. Supposedly they do not have the same ability to sweep the cassette up and down as Campy is known for. Also, supposedly they are not as durable.




I have 2009 Centaur brake/shifters with 2003 Chorus derailleurs and 2004 Chorus crankset. I prefer the aesthetics of the Ergo shifters and really wanted to get a set of Chorus but I didn't want carbon levers and it seems to be increasingly difficult to find them with alloy levers at a price I was willing to pay. The ergonomics of the new design are very, very nice though.
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Old 09-22-13, 04:34 AM
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If you can find a set, 2010 Centaur are IMO the best price/performance/looks combination. 2009 Centaur (which I have) has some well known issues. The Current Veloce/Centaur really isn't bad to be honest either. Just a bit different because of Powershift.
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Old 09-22-13, 05:18 AM
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Pretty much what the other guys said.
Anything 2010 and later is good. Btw I have the 2010 Centaur Ultrashift 10s shifters and they are flawless and multiple shift.
I think I could live with PS shifters which is all the late model 10s shifters. Have to move to Chorus 11s for Ultrashift aka multiple shift.
Late model shifters are less complex and also the most durable...a very solid design. 2009 was a transistional year and should be avoided...bugs weren't worked out.
You could either simply ebay your derailleurs and go with a 11s groupset without brakes and crank if you have brakes...I personally would dump square taper as well...or you can do it on the cheap and go Veloce PS shifters but have single shift. Probably hard to find 2010 Centaur shifters and I ain't selling mine.
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Old 09-22-13, 08:57 AM
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What about the 2003 Record and Chorus? I've read they had a more positive feel when shifting and still prefered by some over the subsequent QS system.
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Old 09-22-13, 11:19 AM
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Nothing wrong with them but old Record stuff that's in good enough condition to be worth buying isn't actually all that cheap, so you might as well buy something newer.
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Old 09-22-13, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bici_mania
As I understand it, any of the Campy 10 speed shifters will work for you though when I was shopping for shifters I was warned by more than one person to avoid QS shifters. Supposedly they do not have the same ability to sweep the cassette up and down as Campy is known for. Also, supposedly they are not as durable.



I think this post is confusing the QS feature with the escape mechanism on some 2007-2008 shifters.

I had 2007 Centaur shifters. The right shifter would upshift (to a smaller cog) one at a time. That's how a shifter with the escape mechanism works.

When the Centaur shifter failed, I replaced them with 2008 Record QS shifters. The Record shifters work very well and allow you to upshift or downshift 5 cogs at a time.

The QS feature reduces the amount of travel it takes to shift the front derailleur if used with QS front derailleur.
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Old 09-22-13, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Woj75
I've got a Campy Chorus 10 rear dérailleur, front deraileur, and 2003 square taper Record cranks for a new build. I need shifters and was looking for advice on what shifters to pair with my group- older 2003 Chorus or Record-2004 or later 10 QS chorus or record - newer Centaur 10?

Which of the bunch will shift more positively and are going to last the longest?
Thanks
2010 Veloce/Centaur Ultrashift levers (not early 2009 with weak detents, not 2011 and newer which are Powershift and only shift one cog smaller per lever actuation). You could also get there starting with a pair of Chorus Ultrashift levers and the EC-CE160 index cam out of a crashed 10 cog ultrashift lever or EC-CE100 right mechanism (includes everything but mounting hardware, brake blade, and hood for about $90).

The Ultrashift levers are most attractive from a longevity standpoint because they replace the C-Record G-spring mechanism with a ball bearing based detent system which should wear much more slowly due to the reduced friction. The third generation shape is also more comfortable because it spreads the load over more of your palm and I think there's more leverage on the brake levers from the hood position.

As noted the early 2009 10 cog levers have weak detents. There were rolling changes in late 2009 to fixed index cams and ball bearings on the central shaft. I don't know if those changes happened at the same time with ball bearings implying good cams. AFAIK there is no other externally visible difference between good and bad.

If you care about such things the 2010 Centaur Carbon Ultrashift levers are identical to Record apart from the 10 cog index cam not 11 and brake blade aesthetics with matching 337g per pair weight. Super Record levers add another attractive brake blade cut-out and use titanium rear ratchets dropping weight to 330g.

If you can't get those Campagnolo still sells 10 cog Chorus and Record QS levers where the difference is graphics and a coated right index cam that arguably aren't worth the price increase. Stock up on right G-springs and spring carriers and get thumb + front lever return springs and a shift paddle because Campagnolo discontinued small parts for first generation levers, third generation levers in 2009, and second generation parts seem likely to follow. As other posters noted QS is a front shift change which showed up at the same time as Escape but is unrelated.

I'm running 2010 Centaur Carbon Ultrashift levers with mid 2000s Record Titanium derailleurs and picked up a set of Veloce Ultrashift levers as spares before the NOS supplies ran out.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-26-13 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 09-26-13, 08:49 AM
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Hey Drew,
thanks for the great info- so much I would love a little clarification if you don't mind.

Does the latest version of Chorus 10 QS Ultra have the ball bearing cog index cam design or do I have to start with Chorus 11 speed and down grade with the parts you described above. Sorry for my confusion, and thanks again for the sage advice.
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Old 09-26-13, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Woj75

Does the latest version of Chorus 10 QS Ultra have the ball bearing cog index cam design


No. They use the 1992 G-spring mechanism derived from a down-tube shift lever with the clock spring introduced with 9 cogs to counter balance derailleur spring tension so less force is required to shift to larger cogs.

or do I have to start with Chorus 11 speed and down grade with the parts you described above.
You want some sort of Ultrashift lever with the revised clickier 10 cog index cam. If you start with a Chorus lever and add parts other than the complete mechanism you may also want the front ratchet which is 10 speed specific. I didn't change the front ratchet when I moved from 8 to 9 cogs and could only make a 2 cog shift to the big cog not 3 until I bent the lever to allow more clearance although every place else I got 3 cog shifts.

Here's the classic G-spring mechanism we've come to know and love and its corresponding index cam. Note

1. The steel G-spring legs which rub across the index detents and wear away

2. The thin carrier which has cracked from fatigue




Here's an Ultrashift rear ratchet and the two 10 speed index cam varieties. Note

1. The two ball bearings which roll over the corresponding detents for minimal wear

2. The beefy stationary index cam in good (left) and weak original 2009 (right) forms. Part of the more positive feel comes from the radial protrusions between positions which require the index cam to compress the volute springs holding it against the rear ratchet before the ratchet can move to the next position.




Here are the Campagnolo spares catalog pages for the Centaur Ultrashift levers before and after the mid-2009 move from small parts sales to assemblies. Note

1.
The EC-CE110 set of parts is also no longer sold separately from EC-CE100. You might be able to find a retro shop which eschews the internet and still has the separate EC-CE160 index cam or that group in its part bins along with the EC-CE133 front ratchet.

2. The index cam, front ratchet, and brake blades have Centaur part numbers; rear ratchet and shift paddles Record; and everything else Super Record.



Attached Images
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second_gen_g_spring.jpg (42.6 KB, 40 views)
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second_gen_index_cam.jpg (83.6 KB, 37 views)
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ultrashift_mechanism.jpg (47.7 KB, 35 views)
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ultrashift_good_and_bad.jpg (63.4 KB, 36 views)
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ultrashift_small_parts.jpg (79.7 KB, 37 views)
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ultrashift_assemblies.jpg (87.1 KB, 32 views)

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-26-13 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 09-26-13, 01:22 PM
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I like changing g strings!
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Old 09-26-13, 02:58 PM
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I do not have the experience of others in this thread, but I have been using 2012 Veloce Ergo levers, and for $90 new, they are very nice. Sure, they aren't as nice as the UltraShift version, but they blow the doors off of 105 levers, for both comfort and function, IMO.

Edit: Only reason I chimed in is if you can't find perfect, don't overlook good.
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Old 09-30-13, 12:57 PM
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Thanks again Drew,
It all finally makes sense. Anybody have some Centaur ultrashifts for sale?
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Old 09-30-13, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Woj75
Thanks again Drew,
It all finally makes sense. Anybody have some Centaur ultrashifts for sale?
I have a deathgrip on mine
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Old 10-01-13, 09:38 AM
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I see ultrashift shifter bodies around- how could those be used to get to the desired setup? Would I be able to get a power shift setup and trade out the right side parts with the ultrashift parts?
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Old 10-01-13, 09:54 AM
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Non-carbon Chorus shifters from 2001 are probably the most beautiful ones ever made. And they're durable, rebuild-able, etc.
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Old 10-01-13, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by dfischer1
Non-carbon Chorus shifters from 2001 are probably the most beautiful ones ever made. And they're durable, rebuild-able, etc.
Ooh, those are nice.
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Old 10-01-13, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Woj75
I see ultrashift shifter bodies around- how could those be used to get to the desired setup?
The most probable paths to success are

- Buying a new ($250 from Ribble including cables, sometimes $200 on ebay) or used set of Chorus 11 speed Ultrashift levers and a right replacement mechanism for ~$90.

- Finding a NOS set of Veloce ultrashift levers (sometimes $150 on ebay with no cables) and living with the black anodizing

Would I be able to get a power shift setup and trade out the right side parts with the ultrashift parts?
No. Two different mechanisms. The left lever is different too and AFAIK only trims in one direction.
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Old 11-08-13, 03:00 PM
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Chorus 11 speed shifters and Centaur 10 speed body purchased. I will post when installed.
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Old 11-09-13, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Woj75
Chorus 11 speed shifters and Centaur 10 speed body purchased. I will post when installed.
This is slightly related... Is it possible to convert 9 speed ergopower levers to 10 speed? I've got a pair of '99 NOS chorus levers on my backup bike, but I actually much prefer the shift feel to the 105 on my main bike, so converting them to 10 spd and running a shift mate might be an option.
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Old 11-11-13, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP
This is slightly related... Is it possible to convert 9 speed ergopower levers to 10 speed? I've got a pair of '99 NOS chorus levers on my backup bike, but I actually much prefer the shift feel to the 105 on my main bike, so converting them to 10 spd and running a shift mate might be an option.
Sure. You just need a new front ratchet (EC-RE062) and index cam (EC-RE061).

In a pinch you could skip the front ratchet, although when I did that on my 8 to 9 cog conversion I couldn't make the three cog shift to the largest until I bent the front paddle a bit.
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Old 02-11-15, 02:30 PM
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Shifter bodies swapped successfully. I'm going to start my build this weekend and will post results and a picture upon finishing. Thanks again to Drew for the help.
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