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Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 16110573)
What FTPs were you assuming? How were you calculating NP?
Pace line NP was calculated as: (w*P1^4+(1-w)*P2^4)^0.25 |
Originally Posted by mr_pedro
(Post 16110451)
I assumed:
-No wind on a flat -a certain improvement from drafting -a certain quadratic relationship between power and speed -some FTP for rider1 and for rider2 -instantaneous switches from pulling to drafting -Normalized power for both riders is equal to their FTP The time between exchanges is a considerable amount of time. If we assume 5 seconds for the entire process with 30 second pulls that is 1/6th of the total time. It matters. I'm not sure what values I would use for that time but I think it needs to be factored in. Realistically, any two man break I've ever been has one rider suffering more at least at some point in the break. I also agree with a previous post that suggested that the stronger rider take longer pulls but that both riders pull at the same speed (although they efforts are different). The stronger rider may notch it up a kph or two but successful breaks are the ones where the pace is the steadiest. |
^ That's why we prefer longer pulls when training, about 2-3 mins.
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Originally Posted by Nachoman
(Post 16105982)
I guess it depends on how much stronger the one rider is.
If it's not a race type situation, it might be reasonable for the stronger cyclist the pull the entire time. I would also ad this depends on goals when really trying to make speed the stronger one should take longer pulls as the pace can be maintained at a higher rate. If it is training, equal or even more time in the front for the weaker cyclist to gain fitness and speed. Pulls by the stronger rider should be to increase the pace and push the training partner without dropping him and make the pace honest |
Originally Posted by wheelreason
(Post 16110621)
Unless the difference in the riders is minimal, what will end up happening is one will pull and the other one will push.
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
(Post 16111758)
This is too important to be glossed over. It may make a tidy equation but it also creates flawed data.
The time between exchanges is a considerable amount of time. If we assume 5 seconds for the entire process with 30 second pulls that is 1/6th of the total time. It matters. I'm not sure what values I would use for that time but I think it needs to be factored in. Realistically, any two man break I've ever been has one rider suffering more at least at some point in the break. I also agree with a previous post that suggested that the stronger rider take longer pulls but that both riders pull at the same speed (although they efforts are different). The stronger rider may notch it up a kph or two but successful breaks are the ones where the pace is the steadiest. It makes the NP higher, I wonder how significant this is. What my first calculations show is that you can not do much better than with constant speed, and that alo allows for longer pulls. |
Originally Posted by Gallo
(Post 16112318)
+1 I have been both the weaker and the stronger (obviously at different times)
I would also ad this depends on goals when really trying to make speed the stronger one should take longer pulls as the pace can be maintained at a higher rate. If it is training, equal or even more time in the front for the weaker cyclist to gain fitness and speed. Pulls by the stronger rider should be to increase the pace and push the training partner without dropping him and make the pace honest |
Originally Posted by mr_pedro
(Post 16112470)
Well, the entire point of the excercise is to see if the difference is too big or if we could go faster in a a pace line.
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I've always done 3 minute pulls in this situation, or any paceline situation when rolling is inappropriate. One can also use mileposts: works out about right whatever the terrain. Hold the cadence, even if it's gusty. Shoot for the average desired power or HR. That's perhaps the biggest difference between riding solo and pulling.
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Originally Posted by wheelreason
(Post 16112540)
Point?...LMAO...
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