Blow me.

If I could do that we'd never leave the friggin house.

Then we wouldn't have to worry about this stupid climbing **** would we?

pick one of the little old ladies and stay at her cadence and sit on her wheel on the climb to the top.
problem solved.

I don't understand how you could have enough power to sustain 25mph on the flats but is so slow on the climbs that everybody is passing you. It makes no sense.

Try ditching the 50/34 up front for a 52/36 and then put an 11/28 cassette on the rear.....this "mid compact" gearing has proven to be the holy grail for me. Lose almost nothin on top compared to a standard 53 for haulin ass in the flats or descents and give up only two teeth on the bottom. With the 11/28 out back, you will find the perfect gear ratio to get to the top quick!

At 5'11" and 232 lbs (and dropping fast), I'm certainly not the picture of the typical cyclist's frame. That said though, I've found that riding about the same distances as you over the summer, I've greatly built up my strength and speed, especially on climbs. I've been climbing the Strava Leaderboards on local climbing segments, and am generally in the top 10% overall on such segments now.

Here's what I've noticed: I commute regularly to work. I have a ride with about 600' of total ascent going in, and about 900' coming home. One day I decided to do some hill repeats on hills between my house and the river (I'm at about 330' elevation, and river is essentially sea level here). The next day on my commute, I was setting personal records on steep hills, and noticed I was maintaining my cadence through the longer, shallower inclines without really having to downshift. Immediate effect.

The following weekend, the wife and I rode our kids to the pool. I towed them in our bike trailer, which weighs over 100 lbs once you load it with the kids. Only put on about 200' of elevation going to the pool and about 150' coming home, but again the rest of the week I just felt WAY stronger.

Anyways, while this is by no means scientific, I've noticed that anything you do to build up your leg strength will likely translate into noticeable improvement in your climbing. Do the hill repeats, or borrow a trailer and load it down, or just do some squats/leg presses/whatever to build up your strength.

Also, if you're doing hill repeats, I'd recommend using an app like Strava. You can search for good hills in your area (they'll be marked with segments that you can compete on). Also, the segment leaderboards will a) let you track your improvement over time, and b) push you to compete with others.

It's true for me, but I'm over 200#.

Dood your built to climb I'm 5'10" 195lb climb OK need to drop 20lbs It's in your head. I say that because I too fear hills never my favorite but decided to ride one day with out contacts just my sunglasses I could see fine enough but I found I was hitting hills I once feared faster and harder because I was kinda unaware where the F I was.....Since then I ride different and push harder thus climb better.....your weight is not the issue its your head.

More likely the fact that he's a beginner.

25 mph in A groups and still getting drops on climbs can make sense - that's me in a nutshell. He mentioned drafting etc before and that he's reasonable at drafting. Going 25 or even 30 mph while drafting takes a lot less gas than climbing even a moderate hill at some normal effort (I'm relating it to me here).

So for me I can sit in at 27+ mph at 175w avg power (this was in the Cat 2 Tour of Somerville in 2011). 175w is the power I need to go about 18 or 20 mph by myself on a flat road. (In fact I got caught behind a crash at Somerville and averaged in the 270w range to go 22-25 mph solo for half a lap to the finish.)

To climb a 0.3 mile hill near my house (about 4-5% for 0.1 mi, another section that's 10-12% for 0.05 mi, and the other 0.15 mile varies between 0 and 5%) I need to average 190-200w to hold 13-14 mph, which is close to my (210-220w per hour) limit. The guys holding the Strava top times are doing in the 370-400w range to hold 20-21 mph, and those are the guys at the front of a race going 27 mph.

So if I want to follow those guys on the flats I can do 150-200w and stay with them easily. On a hill I need to put down in the 350-450w range (depending on their weight vs mine) and I'm shelled pretty quickly.

I don't have a power tap but the above makes total sense.
Staying in the middle of the peloton on flats at high speeds takes a lot less effort.

while climbing you're totally on your own

I think only time and distance will make it better

LOL... Hey, it worked for Lance...

Those pie-plate cogs come at the expense of spacing so you don't want them.

At decent climbing weight you don't need anything bigger than 34x23 or 39x25 as in 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 or 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26 10 cogs. If you've picked up some middle aged spread loose weight and/or get a triple crank and keep the cogs.

Me too. Winters RR M35+. Mostly flat or rollers with one hill. The climbers don't even really consider it a climbing race, but it's enough to shell my fat ass like a roasted peanut. I need to be at least 5kg lighter next summer if I want to have a chance to stay attached.

I understand about the power meter or lack thereof. I wanted to give some numbers to give the relationship between the various numbers. Consider that my average speed increases by 40% (8+ mph) when drafting. Consider that I can not only average a higher speed but I can also initiate attacks, chases, bridge to a break, and do a sprint while averaging under 190w.

Let's put it this way - my training rides generally average in the 140-160w range and I average 14-15 mph. At 180w or so I'm averaging in the 18 mph range (187w gave me 18.3 mph on Oct 3, 2013, the fastest solo ride of 2013 for me). For many people those numbers barely register on the effort scale, they'd be a 2 or 3 out of 10.

At the exact same wattages I can average 25 mph in a group (160-170w range), and 187w avg has netted me a second place in a very, very, very tough race for me (which even has a hill in it every lap). I'm pretty active in this race and averaged that 187w. In the final leadout, where my teammate went about 35 mph, I was actually resting, my heart rate dropping 5 bpm while he was going 35 mph. This enabled me to sprint a bit better. A note: the guy that counters on the first lap (I mention he won the Cat 4 race earlier in the day), well he's turned pro, and that race at Bethel was his first win, according to an interview he did. He super strong, he has a massive, massive FTP, but I beat him. I'll probably never beat him again, if I can even enter a race he's in, but that day, with my low FTP, I managed to finish just ahead of him (I pass him in the sprint).

The point is that if you save your strength a bit on the flats and downhills you'll have a bit more to give on the hills. You'll be pleasantly surprised when you can finally stay with them - the work after each hill can be just as brutal as you're already deep in the red. It's incredibly satisfying to be able to stay with the group on rides like that.

Unfortunately your sustainable power, although somewhat "trainable" is generally genetically determined. I couldn't climb or time trial well at every weight, every fitness level. In my adult life (18-now), at my adult height (5'7") I've weighed anywhere from 103 to 215+ lbs.

I could win field sprints shortly after my 215 lbs time (I was in the 200 lbs range), I could win field sprints at 103 lbs just as handily, and in fact I won 2 of the first 3 Senior/Men's races I entered. At the same time I couldn't climb well even at 103 lbs, believe it or not. I was so convinced that I would be a good road racer (based on my low weight) that I spent a lot of time working on my climbing. It was all for naught.

The problem is that my FTP is in a general range ("low" :) ) and nothing, not even EPO, can help it. My hematocrit is typically 46-49% so I'm not lacking in red blood cells, it's something else. Even if my hematocrit was 35 and I could boost my power 15% or whatever that's still in the low range (225-240w). It's not the 280-320w that many riders have, and it's way below the pro level 380-450+. I'd need to at least double my threshold power to be a pro and that just can't happen. I just don't have an aerobic engine.

This means that I've learned, through decades of painful reinforcement (conditioned response if you will) to avoid races with hills longer than about 400 meters. Time trials also - I got 3rd last in one TT I did, part of a big stage race. I beat one guy because he got hit by a truck and broke his leg. The other guy I beat had a flat tire and rode more than half the time trial on a flat tire, and I didn't beat him by much.

Hmm.. Interesting point about red blood cells. I'm severely anemic - very low red cell count and iron. It's genetic so nothing can be done.
I can easily keep my HR in the 160-180 range for over an hour, but likely not getting efficient oxygen delivery. The heart and lungs work well but the blood can't absorb enough oxygen to power the muscles? Resting HR is mid 40s so it's not a heart/lung conditioning issue I imagine.

This morning I was looking at one of the other guys computer and his HR was at 115 while I was at 157...we had just stopped at a traffic light..

I just need to keep working at it and I'll get there eventually.

OP your power to weight ratio sucks. There are ways to fix that and they all involve a bit of pain and HTFU. good luck

It makes perfect sense. His power to weight ratio is lower than others in the group that he's drafting behind.

He's strong enough to sit in the draft at 25mph with other stronger riders, where he has a 30% advantage from the draft.

When the road turns up, and the advantage of the draft, particularly in comparison to the power requires to go up hill, diminishes significantly ( and likely the stronger riders turn it up) his lower power to weight ratio is revealed.

As said above, the answer is improve w/kg, and that takes time, and work.

I still think OP is hugely overestimating is speed on the flats. I'll bet OP hits 25mph in a draft for like a few minutes at most, then settles in with the group closer to 18-20 in the draft. Even with a full draft, if you can average 25mph for an hour or more with the group, you have enough power at 150lbs/5'9" to at least climb reasonably decently.

I think OP also has to realize that most road groups crank up the wattage on the climbs. I've done most of the local roadie group rides in Norcal and Socal, and in all the ones that are big, it's easy pedaling on all the flats at slower than conversational pace, and then kill-everyone-around-you pace the moment the first real climb starts up. Literally like going from 120measly watts to 350-400 watts the moment that hill hits, so sometimes 3x the power output on the flats. Makes a lot of folks think they just suck at climbing, when in reality, it's the experienced and strong guys just trying to shake out the slow folks on the real climbing.

This thread is an eye opener as I'm so not like any of you.
I'm an old guy, but I weigh 138 and can hit 200 watts for 20 minutes (nothing to brag about, but still more than several here have mentioned)
My 190s output for 1:15 was only good enough to land me slightly above mid pack for my age group in a 11 mile 3200 ft climb fest.

So at lighter with more power than many posters, I am only OK as a climber. Well, really, only approaching OK.

AND I can't hit more than low 20s (OK, maybe mid 20s) on a sprint, and the idea or rolling at 20 for more than a mile without a tail wind and a downhill? Impossible.

My point:
I can only conclude that these flat land speed estimates are grossly inflated, or that I have the worst aerodynamics on the planet. I'm guessing the former.

EDIT:
What hhnngg1 said

I disagree. 25 in a group feels like 20 or less solo. 20 mph solo requires around 180 watts, or 2.65 w/kg. I can climb at 4.6 w/kg for 20 minutes, and am a good bit slower than most of the A ride. I think 2.65 w/kg would be at the back of the B ride. Basically, if you have to work hard to ride 25 mph in a group, you will get dropped way off the back on the hills.

In a big, smooth group on flat ground without a crosswind, you could absolutely do 25 with a very mellow effort.

Actually, I doubt hes ever going to have a good power to weight ratio. The biggest improvement he could possibly make is fixing the severely anemic part. Its like he's on anti-EPO.

Beyond that I suspect he's pushing too hard on the flats and out of gas in the hills. Aero drag is the worst for lightweight riders. You need to learn just how hard you can push before you pop, then make sure to stay under that on the flats and push when you hit a hill.

W/kg is meaningless for flat riding. Your cross-section increases significantly more slowly than your mass (Square-Cube law). For flat riding, its all about raw Watts. Just look at the number of large riders you see flying on the flats who burn out on the first hill.