Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Next replaced chain skipping question. Heresy!

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Next replaced chain skipping question. Heresy!

Old 11-22-13, 08:57 AM
  #26  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,149
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 774 Posts
I too am a light guy, a spinner, plus I also keep things very clean. This last part of not allowing toothpastey grindy gunk to accumulate is a big factor. The others are important but I suspect keeping the "erosion" material down is a real factor.
djb is offline  
Old 11-22-13, 09:48 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern NY...Brownville
Posts: 2,526

Bikes: Specialized Aethos, Specialized Diverge Comp E5

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 423 Times in 243 Posts
I also thought a bit about the replacement cost of a new chain every 1500 miles or so which means at least twice yearly for me. The cost of a Campy Record/Chorus/Shimano/SRAM chain is costly even paying the wholesale price...one perc of working in a shop and a lot of time/experience...I figured if I got two or three years tops out of the chain and cassette I would still be ahead.
Ten years of no expense for a chain/cassette is a bundle of dough.

I'd not do this if I was racing...even club races. Way too much strain on the chain when under a heavy load, especially sprinting and hammering on a climb. But at 58 years old and riding 15 to 30 miles per day on basically flat roads at 17mph avg at a nice 100rpms puts much less strain/stress on the chain and everything else for that matter and my bike thanks me hehehe.
Kai Winters is offline  
Old 11-22-13, 09:59 PM
  #28  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,149
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 774 Posts
Originally Posted by Kai Winters
I also thought a bit about the replacement cost of a new chain every 1500 miles or so which means at least twice yearly for me.
1500 miles or 2400k seems like a rather short time. I realize there are so many factors that come into play, but I have routinely gone a minimum 5000km per chain, but then I also use a ruler to measure for the 1/16" over a foot, and tend to mistrust the chain measuring tools at bike shops (although, my experience is only with chains up to 9 speed)
djb is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 05:30 AM
  #29  
Speechless
 
RollCNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central NY
Posts: 8,842

Bikes: Felt Brougham, Lotus Prestige, Cinelli Xperience,

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 39 Times in 16 Posts
Kai,
Was the long lasting set 9 speed or 10 speed? Anecdotally, 10 speeds seem much more prone to elongation and issues due to the thinner side plates. Am of the chain failures I have seen are 10 speed, but that may be spurious as the overwhelming majority of folks I ride with are on 10 speeds.
RollCNY is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 08:48 AM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern NY...Brownville
Posts: 2,526

Bikes: Specialized Aethos, Specialized Diverge Comp E5

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 423 Times in 243 Posts
Originally Posted by RollCNY
Kai,
Was the long lasting set 9 speed or 10 speed? Anecdotally, 10 speeds seem much more prone to elongation and issues due to the thinner side plates. Am of the chain failures I have seen are 10 speed, but that may be spurious as the overwhelming majority of folks I ride with are on 10 speeds.
9 Speed
Kai Winters is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 01:11 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Posts: 10,123

Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Thanks to all who provided advice in the thread I started yesterday regarding a new chain that is skipping on an old cassette. I ordered a new cassette, and all should be hunky-dory soon enough. BUT always thinking, perhaps a little too much, I came up with a heretical question.

Consensus here seems to be that if one is diligent about replacing chains on schedule, one's cassette will last for about 2-3 chains before becoming too worn to work properly with a new chain. Renewing the chain increases the life of the cassette. Now in my case cassettes cost very roughly about 2.5X the cost of a chain and last just about that multiple of chains.

SO why not wait to change the chain until it no longer works on the cassette and both are fully worn out, and then always change both at the same time? I had no problems with the chain I just replaced. Shifted fine and was quiet. Why should I have not just kept using it? One thing for sure, with that method one would always get perfect performance from the new chain-new cassette combination. Or in fact now, why should I not just dig around in the recycling bin, get out the old chain, and put it back on. I could keep the new chain for a later time, and I would save the cost of a new cassette, at least for now. I can't say how long the combination would go before both had to be changed due to malfunction, and the actual economic comparison of the two maintenance practices is a bit murky in the absence of hard data. But I surely know that right now the cheapest thing for me to do is put the old chain back on. And as a purely recreational rider, I am not going to lose a race due to my chain-cassette combination malfunctioning. What's the downside?

Comments?
If you have one bike and one cassette and steel chainrings, there is nothing wrong with wearing the chain and cassette together and replacing both at the same time. There might be eventually some problems with shifting, but probably not huge ones.

Eventually there are two problems: the first is the chainrings. Those wear out as well, if you run them with a worn chain, but at a much slower pace than the cassette. Replacing chainrings ain't cheap! Most of the advice to wear the chain extra long and replace the chain and cassette together came from the time when chainrings were steel and basically never wore out.

The second is when you have multiple cassettes and maybe multiple bikes you want to share wheels between. You get in the situation where a chain and cassette and effectively matched, and your mix and match options between wheelsets, cassettes, and bikes become limited. Running a new cassette with an old chain will wear the cassette extra fast. Running an old cassette with a new chain will cause skipping. Easiest solution is to replace the chain before it has the opportunity to cause wear on any of the cassettes.

TL;DR: problems with long running chain: aluminum chainrings, multiple cassettes, and switching wheels with multiple bikes.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 01:20 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Posts: 10,123

Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
By the way, if you use high quality steel cassettes (Ultegra), you can get way more than 2 or 3 chains per cassette. I replace the chain when I can measure wear with a chain checker, and the cassettes basically never wear out. Cassette wear is only caused by chain wear. If you don't allow chain wear, the forces on the cassette teeth are low enough it basically never wears out. I'll replace the cassette only when there is a noticeable problem with shifting or a new chain starts skipping.

The problem with doing cost analysis on consumables is it is so sensitive to price. The easiest way to shortcut all this is to put wear on as few components as possible. Chains go on deep discount frequently. Let the chain bear as much of the drivetrain wear as possible and stock up with extras when you find the right price point.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 01:50 PM
  #33  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
By the way, if you use high quality steel cassettes (Ultegra), you can get way more than 2 or 3 chains per cassette. I replace the chain when I can measure wear with a chain checker, and the cassettes basically never wear out. Cassette wear is only caused by chain wear. If you don't allow chain wear, the forces on the cassette teeth are low enough it basically never wears out. I'll replace the cassette only when there is a noticeable problem with shifting or a new chain starts skipping.

The problem with doing cost analysis on consumables is it is so sensitive to price. The easiest way to shortcut all this is to put wear on as few components as possible. Chains go on deep discount frequently. Let the chain bear as much of the drivetrain wear as possible and stock up with extras when you find the right price point.
All good advice. Well I don't have just one bike, but I still think riding the worn chain and cassette is doable. My situation is three bikes, essentially interchangeable, including four pairs of wheels each with its own cassette. It should never be necessary for me to change a wheel in an emergency when I am in a hurry to get out for a ride (like a flat tire, etc.). I can just as easily select one of the other bikes for the immediate ride and fix the problem later. If I do want to change to a different set of wheels on a bike, I can always do it when I have time to swap cassettes also. So I should be able to keep chains and cassettes paired together without any problem.

Also two out of three of my cranks are FSA SL-K Lights, and the other is SRAM Red. Small chain rings for all three are relatively cheap, $20-30 or so . I am embarrassed to admit that I rarely use the big ring. So we are really only talking about needed a new 39 t ring if one ever wears to much to continue using it. My Red cassettes cost as much as 7X that and maybe soon even more when the old model Powerdome cassettes disappear from the market. I use KMC SLX 10 speed chains, and they cost at least $45. So when I say the chain rings are relatively cheap, I really mean it.

All in all, now that I've got myself in this situation with one or maybe even two worn-in chain and cassette combos, I think I am better off to just keep riding them as paired up and save the money. Your comments (sans the remark about steel chain rings) gives me even more encouragement to do that. Thanks.
rpenmanparker is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
zhongyuan9817
Road Cycling
17
06-07-17 09:50 AM
kenshireen
Bicycle Mechanics
3
12-30-15 04:37 PM
Nick Bain
Bicycle Mechanics
4
10-10-15 05:44 PM
chainhwip
Road Cycling
21
12-01-12 11:18 AM
whitey818
Bicycle Mechanics
4
09-22-10 05:14 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.