Herbie53

A thread to post framesets that look the same with different names.....

Two posts came up on my FaceBook feed today.

One was for the new November frameset called the "Dojo"



The other a cover pic from Lemond



Hard to tell with the paint and angles of the photos, but they do look similar.

JohnDThompson 

It's quite possible. The molds for building those frames are quite expensive, and sharing the cost over multiple labels helps keep it affordable.

gsa103

A few obvious differences, internal vs external cabling. The LeMond seat stays look different. The top tube to seat tube sections look different.

November contracted with a manufacturer in the Orient. Its entirely possible LeMond is using the same manufacturer so there may be some re-use of tubing or molds. The thing with carbon fiber is that tube shape is only a small part of the story. The lay-up and choices of weave/resin can have dramatic impact on the final product.

canam73

Per the Lemond site his frames are built by Time in France. Don't know, but I doubt the November is.

BillyD

Is this quiz open book?

ultraman6970

Everywhere it says that lemond frames are actually made by look. The issue is that the built is not even close to what look does, at all, and indeed they look similar but it is true also that these asians see something and after a few days they have the darn molds made, and they have copied looks, times and even BMC.

Herbie53

Here's another one..

Pedal Force CG2



November Wheelhouse (discontinued)

Herbie53

open google.

dtrain

Totally different. Gloss /= Matte

Barrettscv 

I would say the November and Pedal Force share some remarkable details. I have a CG2 and it's a high class product with BB30, tapered headset and internal routing. Good looking, too.

kleng

The Lemond, does have the Time pedigree, check out the rear stay design it's a lug style connection similar to all Time frames.

Don't know where it ever mentions the Look / Lemond tie up ?

This article mentions only Time

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...es-return-2014

Bob Dopolina 

Lemond-Time in the first paragraph.

As to bikes that APPEAR to be the same, the previous poster nailed it. Frames can appear to be the same, they may even come from the same open mold, but the devil is in the details such as materials and layup schedule. Those two factors, more than anything else, will determine the charactaristcs and quality of the frame.

This is the dilema the consumer faces as there is no way of knowing (weight is an indicator but not fullproof).

Also, OP, you seem to be picking on one brand. Reasons?

Herbie53

No, just familiarity. I have a November. The new November frame does not look like it has a lug above the chain stays like the LeMond.

Here's a different one for you...

Older Scattante CFR..


Pedal Force CG3

bobcdc

I actually recently reviewed November Bike's new Dojo here recently (I got to ride it for about a month). It's a completely different frame as their previous bike. I don't believe the mold they are using is being used (or was being used) by any other Mfr. from conversations I've had with one of the owners. I imagine they're going to talk about that very very soon. According to their facebook page, they announce it all with pricing and options tomorrow.

https://www.facebook.com/NovemberBicycles

canam73

I don't think it should be hard to find small and economy brands that share molds. That's what they do.

Now, if you find one of the big brands sharing a mold with an eBay seller it would be interesting.

November Mike

The Lemond bike is gorgeous, so we're flattered. If you look at it on the Lemond site though you'll see that the rear triangle is very different, with a cutout on the seat tube and a slight Pinarello-esque chicane (caused by the lugs mentioned above) on the seat stays. It's also $4449 for the frameset alone, so for all the similarities in appearance, the business model couldn't be more different.

rpenmanparker 

Funny. Back in the day, no one would think of asking whether two steel bikes (with subtle differences) were made by the same manufacturers just because they looked similar. Of course they looked similar. Nearly all quality bikes used the same steel tube diameters and not-so-different lugs. Okay, so maybe one had fastback stays and the other didn't. Maybe one didn't notice that at first glance.

Lugless brazing, welding, tube forming techniques, Oversized steel, Ti and Al, and of course, carbon fiber changed all that. Now the sky's the limit on design differences. But just as in the old days certain design ideas catch on and become popular. And the mega builders with molds that have to be amortized crank out many different brands from the same or similar tooling. So certainly there will be a resemblance between some brands and models. And finding the subtle differences can provide further evidence that similarity isn't the same thing as identity. But as others have already said, you should expect that anyway. Don't be looking at a bike to buy, because it may be the same as another, but rather because it does the job for you on its own.

ultraman6970

The lemond and the open mold one arent even close, the problem with pictures is that wont show up the details, the tubes may look the same shape but the lemond have "veins" in the top tube just to start, rear is different and I bet had reinforcement indentations in the tubes aswell. Probably they wont release detailed pictures till the official public release.

Not saying open mold bikes are bad ok? But at least pedal force is not saying that their stuff is specially designed or coming with a special carbon lay up made of carbonninttanium for example.

In steel everybody had their style and eventhougth there were builder building for other people, they were making the frames as the client wanted, so you were able to find differences even in low end stuff.

bobcdc

Are you saying that two bikes made from the same mold can't be very different?

Bob Dopolina 

He doesn't appear to be saying that. I think he means that pedal force isn't pretending to be selling something they are not.

sced

It's called "form fitting function". Different designers arrive at the same formula to meet a spec. A lot of bikes look the same. Look at how blobularly alike sedans from all the car companies are - maximizing aero and interior and storage space.

Whatever differences there are between the $4k and November bikes might not be functionally meaningful.

99Klein 

To me the CG2 looks a lot like the Nashbar frame.

bobcdc

Pedal Force and November seem to have similar business models and it looks to me they're both doing a good thing. One thing I can say about November is they definitely aren't pretenders.