It depends. If you are looking at high end (Lynsky and Moots) and comparing to CF, the difference is closer to one pound. Plus a lightweight Ti isn't nearly as stiff as a CF.

Cant wait to see it and read about it.

Thanks I'll check them out as well.

That's what I think too. Closer, but not quite a pound. I you have a 1,000 g CF frame and a 1,375 g Ti frame, that's about 0.83 lb. Despite the claims for 800 g CF frames, it is hard to find them that light. My medium Giant TCR Advanced was supposed to weigh about 900 g according to the magazine review, but came in at 1,207. BIG difference. My Ti frame weight was spot on, however. Lightest major brand CF vs. normal major brand Ti is going to be just about a pound. There are crazy light Ti frames, but they are oddities, not mainstream.

As an engineer, I don't buy in on the theory that stiffer is more efficient.

Uh, oh! Take cover.

Dun dun Duuuuuuuun.

I agree.

Your point is a good one. To me, material is a secondary consideration. To me, sizing (especially effective top tube), head tube length, head tube angle, seat tube angle and chainstay length are all more important. The sizing and geometry of the frame obviously give you a good idea of how it will ride.

Controlling for all of that, comfort and stiffness remain. I think comfort is usually more a function of the tires and pressure you're using than the "vertical compliance" of the frame (although that is certainly a factor). Stiffness is very hard to quantify and debatable in terms of worth (dun dun duuuuun). I guess if I hear my front derailleur rubbing when I'm out of the saddle, the frame I'm riding on is less stiff than one where the FD doesn't rub. Beyond that meaningless distinction, personally I would have a tough time quantifying how much "faster" a particularly stiff frame would make me. Regardless, in my experience very few frames of any material are "noodly" these days a la Vitus 979 or first gen carbon. You're pretty much fine on anything.

Honestly for me, frame material choice came down to my aesthetic preferences and self confidence when working on/ assembling a carbon frame vs. a Ti frame. I like the look of raw brushed Ti. I like a nicely beaded weld. I like knowing in a pinch I can bend a dropout or RD hanger back into shape in the off chance I'd need to. I like being able to tighten my seatpost clamp without dreading hearing a snap. Would a carbon frame necessarily have any of these concerns? Maybe not, but I just felt more comfortable working on a Ti frame. YMMV, of course.

Regardless most people just don't like a bottom bracket that flexes under hard loads. People used to post here about false shifts as well because of flex. Just not a characteristic that's good

A few observations:

- OP inquired about a Ti frame so I'm not sure why you felt the need to once again chime in with CF is better (yes ... I have noticed your posts in other threads harping on this same theme .... give it a rest)
- To make a blanket statement that Ti BBs have unacceptable amount flex under hard loads is nonsense. I'm sure there are some Ti frames that are noodly but there are plenty of well made Ti frames that are quite stiff and don't have any issues of false shifting.
- The advent of PF30 / BB30 shells have helped both lighten and stiffen Ti frames by allowing for larger diameter thin walled Ti tubing. Admittedly these frames are still not as light as uber high end CF frame but their weight is competitive with the vast majority of CF frames out there
- I'm am by no means a CF hater and have demo some frames I really liked. That having been said the Cervelo frame I had on a rental bike that I rode for a week while on vacation last year was for me pretty disappointing / unimpressive. Just didn't do it for me and the interesting point was that when I returned the bike and was asked by the shop owner what I thought of the bike and responded with a meh he wasn't surprised. He was a Cervelo dealer and was pretty frank about Cervelo's PR kool aide / hype. Not saying it was a bad bike but that I had ridden some other frames (Ti, CrMo and CF) that I thought had better ride qualities.
- Point is to each his own and if the OP want's a Ti frame that's his / her prerogative and I'm sure they can find a frame that will provide a high level of satisfaction and enjoyment.

Just my 2 cents

Yeah.

Hey guys, Happy New Year! Happy Holidays and all that merriment.

Oh and one more thing, please drop the CF feuding? This is a thread about Ti. OP has not expressed any interest in CF so there's no need to introduce that topic in this thread. If you want to feud about something go check out the wide range of topics we offer in P&R . . . but let's end the CF discussion in here. Thanks!

Happy Holidays and all! :)