View Poll Results: Natural raw weld beads or weld beads ground perfectly smooth
Natural raw weld beads on Ti and Al frames
36
62.07%
Weld beads ground perfectly smooth on Ti and Al frames
22
37.93%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll
POLL: How should the welds appear on titanium frames?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
POLL: How should the welds appear on titanium frames?
On another thread there was a difference of opinion on the desirability of grinding the weld beads on titanium frames completely smooth. It was offered that the best "raw" beads (small, delicate, neat, etc.) showed the skill of the welder who would never want to grind them smooth and hide his skill. It was also suggested that some folks may prefer a perfectly smooth, unified look obtained by starting with slightly larger beads that are subsequently ground perfectly smooth and curved into the miter. What do you think and prefer given no difference in strength and durability: very well done natural, raw welds or perfectly smooth beads finished by grinding after welding? I suppose this question could also pertain to aluminum so feel free to opine on that subject as well.
#2
Senior Member
Since you included AL I need a third option.
On Ti I would like them ground. Ti says "clean and precise" to me.
But for some reason on aluminum I like them to look like toothpaste.
On Ti I would like them ground. Ti says "clean and precise" to me.
But for some reason on aluminum I like them to look like toothpaste.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
#4
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
I voted for raw welds, leaving them in their natural state. I'm no expert, though.
#5
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,589
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13711 Post(s)
Liked 4,525 Times
in
2,504 Posts
#6
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,589
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13711 Post(s)
Liked 4,525 Times
in
2,504 Posts
#7
I'm doing it wrong.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,875
Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Frank Jones Sr., Trek Fuel EX9, Kona Jake the Snake CR, Niner Sir9
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9742 Post(s)
Liked 2,812 Times
in
1,664 Posts
Make it look like rolled coins.
#9
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,589
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13711 Post(s)
Liked 4,525 Times
in
2,504 Posts
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,012
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix SL3, Lynskey Cooper CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Only a bad looking weld should need to be ground smooth. Smooth welds can hide a lot of sins. Keep it raw.
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
I'll expose my prejudice. Smooth welds can hide sins, but that doesn't mean they do. Why have an appearance you don't like (if that is the case) in order to prove how good your welds are? Very cynical and self defeating IMO.
#13
canis lupus familiaris
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,254
Bikes: En plus one
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I am always suspicious of welds that have been ground. A good weld is the mark of a craftsman, I say show them off.
Ground and polished filled brazes are different matter, but technically that isn't a weld.
Ground and polished filled brazes are different matter, but technically that isn't a weld.
#14
.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 3,981
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Comp, Soma ES
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like them smooth. The only Aluminum frame bike I've had like that was a 2006 Specialized Tricross Comp. It almost looked like a carbon fiber frame because the welds make the tubes look like they are all one part. Nice looking. My steel bikes are smooth also, but you can still see them. My Bianchi has a very small bead of weld around the tubes. Unless you look under the top and bottom tube next to the head tube. No weld there.... Italians......
__________________
Demented internet tail wagging imbicile.
Demented internet tail wagging imbicile.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,745
Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Smooth for me. No crannies to catch dirt and grease.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4233 Post(s)
Liked 2,948 Times
in
1,807 Posts
Some say a good raw weld shows a good class welder. I say a ground smooth and mitered weld shows precision and attention to detail, so that's my vote.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
#17
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
Aluminum weld beads tend to be bigger, and even a technically well done AL weld doesn't look very good IMHO. ( I don't particularly care for the cosmetics of the welds on our aluminum CO-Motion, even I'm sure there technically well done.) Hence, I like the look of Cdale AL frames where the welds are ground, but raw Ti welds on a well done Ti frame like a Merlin.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
I'm with Canam on this. Well done Ti welds, with no grinding look great.
Aluminum weld beads tend to be bigger, and even a technically well done AL weld doesn't look very good IMHO. Hence, I like the look of Cdale AL frames where the welds are ground, but raw Ti welds on a well done Ti frame like a Merlin.
Aluminum weld beads tend to be bigger, and even a technically well done AL weld doesn't look very good IMHO. Hence, I like the look of Cdale AL frames where the welds are ground, but raw Ti welds on a well done Ti frame like a Merlin.
#20
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
you're right I didn't read that correctly.
You can get very nice, smooth looking welds on Ti, without grinding, in a way I don't think (at least haven't seen) on AL.
I do think this really is just a matter of aesthetic preference for the most part, though.
You can get very nice, smooth looking welds on Ti, without grinding, in a way I don't think (at least haven't seen) on AL.
I do think this really is just a matter of aesthetic preference for the most part, though.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#21
Have bike, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,284
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times
in
158 Posts
Raw welds are often stronger. Ground welds hides lower skills and quality.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
#22
I'm doing it wrong.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,875
Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Frank Jones Sr., Trek Fuel EX9, Kona Jake the Snake CR, Niner Sir9
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9742 Post(s)
Liked 2,812 Times
in
1,664 Posts
I have a 1996 Specialized Stumpjumper M2 frame that shows all it's welds. Big old fatty rolled coin looking welds covering every joint. I think it is a thing of beauty.
#23
Senior Member
Reread Canam's post. You have his position backwards. He says he likes smooth Ti, because Ti suggests precision to him. Not smooth raw welds, but smooth gound welds. No matter though. Your opinion is quite well represented by many others on this thread. As I always say, "Different strokes for different folks."
I also agree with you, smoothed welds aren't just to hide errors. I work in commercial steel contracting and often it is just an owner or architects preference. Typically this is on stairs and railings or ornamental fabrications, but even purely structural field welds are sometimes spec'd to be ground and touch up painted.
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
Yep, that is my sentiment. Bubble gummy AL and Ti ground with a brushed finish.
I also agree with you, smoothed welds aren't just to hide errors. I work in commercial steel contracting and often it is just an owner or architects preference. Typically this is on stairs and railings or ornamental fabrications, but even purely structural field welds are sometimes spec'd to be ground and touch up painted.
I also agree with you, smoothed welds aren't just to hide errors. I work in commercial steel contracting and often it is just an owner or architects preference. Typically this is on stairs and railings or ornamental fabrications, but even purely structural field welds are sometimes spec'd to be ground and touch up painted.