Trainer seems really hard...
01-21-14, 01:43 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844
Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I know this is ridiculous but 250watts indoor for me is worse than 250 watts outdoor. For some reason the trainer does make everything harder.
It is much easier for me to go outside to a flat road in my neighboorhood and do an hour of 20min @ 250watts intervals than on the trainer. I've known to scream like an eagle towards the last 2 minutes of my intervals when I am locked in my room.
It is much easier for me to go outside to a flat road in my neighboorhood and do an hour of 20min @ 250watts intervals than on the trainer. I've known to scream like an eagle towards the last 2 minutes of my intervals when I am locked in my room.
__________________
Cat 6 going on PRO....
Cat 6 going on PRO....
01-21-14, 01:47 PM
#27
Senior Member
01-21-14, 01:56 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 2,240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I know this is ridiculous but 250watts indoor for me is worse than 250 watts outdoor. For some reason the trainer does make everything harder.
It is much easier for me to go outside to a flat road in my neighboorhood and do an hour of 20min @ 250watts intervals than on the trainer. I've known to scream like an eagle towards the last 2 minutes of my intervals when I am locked in my room.
It is much easier for me to go outside to a flat road in my neighboorhood and do an hour of 20min @ 250watts intervals than on the trainer. I've known to scream like an eagle towards the last 2 minutes of my intervals when I am locked in my room.
01-21-14, 02:01 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844
Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Those are burners, long intervals at z4 levels. I would think you are talking about shorter z6+ 3-5 minute intervals at 400-700watts.
__________________
Cat 6 going on PRO....
Cat 6 going on PRO....
01-21-14, 02:06 PM
#30
Senior Member
01-21-14, 03:15 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Kurt Kinetic makes a gadget that converts speed of the roller into wattage, as the power curve from trainer to trainer of their brand is supposed to be consistent.
14 MPH = about 140W. 21 MPH is in the neighborhood of 290W. On flat ground sans headwind I can go faster than 14 MPH from 140W, I think. I don't know for sure because I don't own a power meter, just the gadget for the trainer.
From the manufactor's site: Kinetic Road Machine:
P = (5.244820) * S + (0.019168) * S3
S=speed, S3=speed cubed.
14 MPH = about 140W. 21 MPH is in the neighborhood of 290W. On flat ground sans headwind I can go faster than 14 MPH from 140W, I think. I don't know for sure because I don't own a power meter, just the gadget for the trainer.
From the manufactor's site: Kinetic Road Machine:
P = (5.244820) * S + (0.019168) * S3
S=speed, S3=speed cubed.
I did a sufferfest session on my KK trainer sunday. At the end, there's a sprint session where you can (if you want ) put the hammer down best you can. I'm looking at my #'s and during my "sprint" I hit 28mph @115CAD with a HR of 179 (peaked at 181...I'm 36, 6' tall, 170lbs). Doing the math you provided, that's an output of 567w. I was putting much of what I had into that sprint...and I was 2 hrs in. Give or take, that seems a fair output for that effort...
Also...yes, I find the effort on my KK trainer to be more difficult than on the road. I can push to 28 mph on a flat road much easier than I can on a trainer...its not easy either way...but the trainer is far more difficult.
Last edited by Smokehouse; 01-21-14 at 03:26 PM.
01-21-14, 03:16 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844
Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Then again, you probably are.
__________________
Cat 6 going on PRO....
Cat 6 going on PRO....
01-21-14, 04:00 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844
Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think I've mentioned this before, but my bike has rust on most of its metal parts due to gallons of sweat dripping all over. I got one of those thongs that you put on the bike, but I dont think it works 100%.
__________________
Cat 6 going on PRO....
Cat 6 going on PRO....
01-21-14, 04:23 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My head will sweat like a running faucet at times...its crazy...
01-21-14, 05:27 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Im' about 15-20 watts lower on everything on the trainer. I don't think it's just cooling - I used to think so, but this winter, my garage has been 39F, and I blast a large fan on top of that - it's so cold I have to wear gloves on the trainer. Yes, I'm still sweating, but it's not terrible, but I still have that 20 watt gap and I'm freezing cold after I stop, even colder than when I do outdoor rides.
I suspect it's both a cooling factor but also the variable positions you get outdoors due to the road changes - if it's a static trainer position, I suspect it's easier to overfatigue the specific muscles compared to outdoors. Just my theory, but cooling doesn't seem to be the limiter for me indoors.
01-21-14, 06:35 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 557
Bikes: 2021 Trek Checkpoint SL (GRX Di2), 2020 Domane SLR 9 (very green), 2016 Trek Emonda SL, 2009 Bianchi 928, 1972 Atala Record Pro
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times
in
55 Posts
At the risk of thread drift, I was talking this morning with the guy who fit my current bike, which is now relegated to the trainer, about sit pain on the trainer after 70 mins or so. I always attributed it to the absence of natural changes in sit position on the trainer vs. what happens on the road.
He pointed out a second factor: on the fluid trainer, the increase in resistance that comes from speed is designed to mimic the wind. On the road, when the wind actually does it, there's an element of lift on your chest that lightens the sit pressure.
Just one more reason why the trainer is a poor substitute for riding, and why I'm praying for Spring and a rapid solution to SRAM's hydro recall.
He pointed out a second factor: on the fluid trainer, the increase in resistance that comes from speed is designed to mimic the wind. On the road, when the wind actually does it, there's an element of lift on your chest that lightens the sit pressure.
Just one more reason why the trainer is a poor substitute for riding, and why I'm praying for Spring and a rapid solution to SRAM's hydro recall.
01-21-14, 07:10 PM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
The trainer is a poor substitute for the fun factor of riding outdoors, but it can be even better quality training than outdoors if you're doing it right. My trainerroad+powertap = indoor cycling lab, and there's no slacking on those power based workouts, and full control of the granularityof incremental load increase.
It's not easy, but the quality of my indoor training as a whole exceeds my outdoor training quality - no coasting, reproducible day in day out with no weather or equipment excuses, true structured intervals all the time with no excuses. In terms of training (not fun factor), it actually doesn't get much better than that.
It's not easy, but the quality of my indoor training as a whole exceeds my outdoor training quality - no coasting, reproducible day in day out with no weather or equipment excuses, true structured intervals all the time with no excuses. In terms of training (not fun factor), it actually doesn't get much better than that.
01-22-14, 12:25 AM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I didn't say a trainer couldn't be engineered to have power on it match power on the road at the same speed. In fact most trainers probably have at least one speed where that accidentally happens. I just said there is no reason to assume it. Think about a trainer with selective resistance. Clearly you can ride that trainer at the same speed but several (five?) different power outputs. A high end, really well engineered trainer could perhaps map the speed vs. power curve of road riding through tuning of the resistance mechanism or maybe even using a composite mechanism (magnet + wind + fluid). With three contributions to resistance it is likely you could develop coefficients for each component that would closely trace the on-road experience. But wait a minute. That would be at only one effective headwind speed, right? Different headwind, different speed/power curve. Oh and at only one slope too. So you see, it really is hard. Unless the whole thing was programmable and you could put in your wind and slope particulars and get a custom resistance. That would be cool, but not likely any time soon. Is it?
According to the information on their website, the KK Road Machine power/speed correlation was established for a, "rider assumed to be 165 lbs, riding a 23 lb bike with 170mm crank arms up a 1% grade, at sea level with no wind on rough asphalt".
01-22-14, 02:31 PM
#41
Senior Member
Granular. My work-outs are granular.
__________________
Momento mori, amor fati.
Momento mori, amor fati.
01-22-14, 06:03 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Middle, TN
Posts: 118
Bikes: Trek Domane, Specialized Secteur, Giant Roam 1, Trek 2.1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I am new to the trainer this winter as well. I think the reason riding the trainer seems harder for me is there is no break from pedaling as there is when I ride on the road. I find that I am enjoying the trainer experience with Trainerroad although my power output seems pretty weak.
Even though I am using Trainerroad and have a TV set up to watch, my boredom threshold is about an hour.
Even though I am using Trainerroad and have a TV set up to watch, my boredom threshold is about an hour.
01-22-14, 08:06 PM
#43
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cornelia Ga.
Posts: 15
Bikes: IBEX Expert X9, Trek Madine 5.2, Giant Advanced TCR SL 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have been using a fluid trainer with trainer road and sufferfest and I find it very diffucult but I had a real sub par year leading into winter. I did most of my riding alone and I guess I didn't push myself. My goal is to get out on the road in better shape than when I left off in the fall.
01-23-14, 09:53 PM
#44
Senior Member
I think comparing MPH of the two is a waste of time. Just train at the intensity and cadence you desire. I would also say that the resistance is constant throughout the pedal stroke and the resistance is constant through the entire ride so there is no coasting. Those two factors make my trainer more difficult. Once you learn to pedal perfect circles it becomes most easiest.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
agarose2000
Road Cycling
2
05-26-10 04:33 PM
