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Reynolds wheelset replacement -need advice

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Reynolds wheelset replacement -need advice

Old 01-28-14, 02:27 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
Yeah, just get em.
I did!
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Old 01-28-14, 02:30 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Rad View Post
Sounds like you have one set of wheels. In that case and from personal experience, tubies aren't worth the hassle much less the addt'l cost of rubber.

If it's a back-up set, go for it. If it's your only set, make sure you understand the trade-off with tubies.

What happens when you flat on a training ride? With a clincher, pop in a new tube and get on with it. Patch the old tube at home or chuck it for a few bucks. With a tubular set-up, plan on packing a bunch of extras (can of foam sealant and/or spare pre-glued tubie) every time you go out. First, the effectiveness of sealant is questionable. Second, are you prepared to tear off the old tubie on the side of the road and mount a pre-glued replacement? Once you're at home, you can either attempt to un-sew, patch and sew back your tubular or chuck it for another one. Either way, plan on taking the next day off while you wait for the glue on your replacement or new tubie to safely set.

Not sure it makes financial sense, but you could buy something today and sell whatever Reynolds gives you later. Holdout for their latest, greatest and sell it to repay yourself back for the wheels you buy today.
Thanks, and good points. I already gave Reyolds the go ahead to ship me the 2012 Assault Tubulars though. I'm excited to experience it's advantages. I'll use them for races only so the flat hassle issues won't apply. I do have different sets of alloy training wheels and several cassettes.

Unfortunately I couldn't invest in a different set now while waiting for the latest Reynolds either.

Thanks!
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Old 01-28-14, 02:53 PM
  #28  
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I'm going with Assault tubulars once they're available at the shop(newest gen). In the meantime I'm rolling on some China aero clinchers. They've held up pretty good over the last 1200 miles.
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Old 01-28-14, 03:30 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
I'm going with Assault tubulars once they're available at the shop(newest gen). In the meantime I'm rolling on some China aero clinchers. They've held up pretty good over the last 1200 miles.
Nice! Sounds like a good plan!
My old generation ones will be lighter though!
I'm a little bummed I'll miss out on the advantages of the new SLG wheels mentioned here, but am staying positive as I know they'll be an upgrade over what I had previously already. That's probably why Reynolds would put me in the back of the line on their back orders if they were to replace with the SLG, makes sense.

PS - isn't it 25 points now for a Cat 3 upgrade, 30 for Cat 2 and 35 for Cat 1?

I'm gonna set up my Cat 1-o-meter
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Old 01-28-14, 03:36 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by FasterNearGirls View Post
30 for Cat 2

cat 2...so far away...sigh
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Old 01-28-14, 04:06 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by FasterNearGirls View Post
Nice! Sounds like a good plan!
My old generation ones will be lighter though!
I'm a little bummed I'll miss out on the advantages of the new SLG wheels mentioned here, but am staying positive as I know they'll be an upgrade over what I had previously already. That's probably why Reynolds would put me in the back of the line on their back orders if they were to replace with the SLG, makes sense.

PS - isn't it 25 points now for a Cat 3 upgrade, 30 for Cat 2 and 35 for Cat 1?

I'm gonna set up my Cat 1-o-meter
You should!

Nah it's only 20 points for Cat 3 upgrade
http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580

Category 4 to 3: 20 points; or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top-10 finishes with fields of 30 riders or more; or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 Points in 12 months is a mandatory upgrade.
USA Cycling-sanctioned rider camps and clinics that are approved by the Local Associations for upgrading will count as a maximum of three upgrade points when upgrading from category 4 to 3.
It still has the verbiage about 12 months for a cat 3 to 2 upgrade so I'm not sure if that's still the case because I was under the impression they removed that part.

You'll be flying no matter which wheels you get and I'm not sure the new technology is all its marketed out to be but it'll be cool to have either way
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Old 01-28-14, 04:22 PM
  #32  
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haha Cat 1-o-meter set!

YEah the 12 month verbiage is with regards to mandatory upgrades only. Your points carry over now.

Cool, now I need to research tires for the tubulars. I've heard that Continental Sprinters are great and probably the grippiest on corners. Though one friend mentioned it doesn't roll as nicely and fast as it doesn't use a latex tube? I clearly am not familiar.
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Old 01-28-14, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterNearGirls View Post
Cool, now I need to research tires for the tubulars. I've heard that Continental Sprinters are great and probably the grippiest on corners. Though one friend mentioned it doesn't roll as nicely and fast as it doesn't use a latex tube? I clearly am not familiar.
I'm not a fan of the Contis. I removed four? of them even though they weren't flat (Sprinters and another one, not the GP4000 thing). Lumpy, if you get on rollers you'll realize right away. On the plus side the traction is fine and the tube is butyl, not latex, so it takes less time to pump a tire the next day.

My pick is the Vittoria EVO CX. On rollers they feel closest to clinchers (which are, since they're pretty much perfectly molded, the smoothest tires). I run 23mm tires, both the EVO (regular) and Tech (wet weather) and I'm putting them on all my wheels for next year.

With Vittoria the tubes are latex so your tires will be at 40 or 50 psi within a few days. If you're running really, really, really late (i.e. you roll up and your field is lining up) then it's a problem (I used my clinchers that day) but otherwise it shouldn't affect you much.

I've also run Bontragers, the two top ones. The top is 23mm, that is on a set of wheels right now, the next is 22mm. The tires get kind of hard/slippery when they get old so I'm removing them for the Vittorias.

I tend to flat the Vittorias and Bontragers at the end of their usable life so durability isn't a problem.
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Old 01-28-14, 08:03 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Rad View Post

What happens when you flat on a training ride? With a clincher, pop in a new tube and get on with it. Patch the old tube at home or chuck it for a few bucks. With a tubular set-up, plan on packing a bunch of extras (can of foam sealant and/or spare pre-glued tubie) every time you go out. First, the effectiveness of sealant is questionable. Second, are you prepared to tear off the old tubie on the side of the road and mount a pre-glued replacement? ... Either way, plan on taking the next day off while you wait for the glue on your replacement or new tubie to safely set.
It's been a long time since I used tubulars, but the on-the-road flat fix always seemed to me to be a big plus for them vs. clinchers. Just pull off the old tire, slap the new one on and inflate - only took a minute. Much faster and easier than getting out a tire lever to pry the clincher bead over the rim, then having to search for the cause of the flat so you wouldn't get another from an undiscovered thorn or glass shard, getting the new tube installed and finally reinflating. And I never had any issues riding with the spare tubular until it either wore out or suffered from a puncture. But I do agree that the at-home repair of the flat tubular was less pleasant with the need to carefullly locate the hole, undo the stitching, patch the hole, and sew it back up. That and the cost led me to switch back to clinchers.

I talked to one former bike messenger who said he used to carry his spare tubular tied to his seat stay and already going around the rear axle so he didn't even have to pull the rear wheel to replace a flat tire. Just pull the flat tire off the rim, zip-tie it around the other seat stay, untie the spare and mount it. Combine that with CO2 inflation and he could be back on the road in about 30 seconds.

Last edited by prathmann; 01-28-14 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 01-28-14, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
I talked to one former bike messenger who said he used to carry his spare tubular tied to his seat stay and already going around the rear axle so he didn't even have to pull the rear wheel to replace a flat tire. Just pull the flat tire off the rim, zip-tie it around the other seat stay, untie the spare and mount it. Combine that with CO2 inflation and he could be back on the road in about 30 seconds.
That sounds amazing! I assume that's a temp fix and he'd corner carefully until he could do a proper new glue job?

Wait - is it really this meticulous - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGw3DlZMRGI ?? 5 days? That's insane.

Last edited by FasterNearGirls; 01-28-14 at 09:20 PM. Reason: quote format
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Old 01-28-14, 09:15 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post

My pick is the Vittoria EVO CX. On rollers they feel closest to clinchers (which are, since they're pretty much perfectly molded, the smoothest tires). I run 23mm tires, both the EVO (regular) and Tech (wet weather) and I'm putting them on all my wheels for next year.
These guys - http://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria...air-53681.html ?

Or some other one from here - http://www.biketiresdirect.com/searc...lar-road-tires ?

So many and they all claim to be the best!

Thank you!
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Old 01-28-14, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterNearGirls View Post
These guys - http://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria...air-53681.html ?

Or some other one from here - http://www.biketiresdirect.com/searc...lar-road-tires ?

So many and they all claim to be the best!

Thank you!
"Open" tubulars are tubulars "open" at the base, aka a clincher.

The one with the actual tubulars is the list of things you want to consider. My tires tend to be a year or three behind the curve. This is because I buy a bunch of tires when the prices/offers are good, 6 or 8 at a time, and a pair of tires will last me a while, like 2-3 years sometimes (depends on how often I race the wheels they're on, for example I think I raced the Stinger 6s just 3 times last year).

I haven't tried the Pro4 tubular which intrigues me because my favorite clincher tire was the Krylion, and the base casing is the same as the Pro3 or whatever the pro# tire was during that time. I bought but have not installed some Pro4 Endurance clinchers so no personal experience on anything Pro4.

My understanding is that many of the branded tires (Bontrager, Michelin, Specialized, I think Hutchinson?, Vittoria, some others I'm sure) are made in the same factory in Thailand. When Vittoria started making tires there the factory learned how to make a tubular (or so the story goes) and they later made the tires for Bontrager etc. That's why I tried the Bontragers, and they were good. Michelin bought a portion of the factory (25% is what I heard) and moved their machines to Thailand, uses their own rubber compounds, etc, and makes their Pro4s there. If that's the case then the Pro4 tubulars ought to be fantastic. Basically it's a Vittoria type casing with a Michelin tread.

I buy from Ribble, PBK, and through the LBS that sponsors the team.

I checked one of those sites. The Contis I have are the Competitions and the Sprinters.
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Old 01-28-14, 09:38 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post

I haven't tried the Pro4 tubular which intrigues me because my favorite clincher tire was the Krylion, and the base casing is the same as the Pro3 or whatever the pro# tire was during that time. I bought but have not installed some Pro4 Endurance clinchers so no personal experience on anything Pro4.
A guy from Michelin just stopped by our place and dropped some off (it's really good to be in Greenville) so I'll be testing them out this year. They feel really nice but I haven't had a chance to glue them up yet. Conti Sprinters are very durable and have good longevity, but in the wet they seem to be lacking since they moved to the Black Chilli compound.
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Old 01-28-14, 09:46 PM
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I went through 3 pairs of PRO 4's clinchers pretty quickly. They didn't puncture as much as my Pro 3's did but I still was not very happy with how quickly my rear tire squared off.

I've been determined to finally switch to Conti, in fact I even have a set of Force/Attack (24mm/22mm front and rear specific with different durometers/compounds) that I was going to mount in the spring. But now that I am going tubulars, those clinchers will go to my training wheels.

I guess I'll look into the Continental or Vittoria options in Tubulars.

Lastly, this video is much more comforting - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCvSa5_RwyU phew!
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Old 01-28-14, 10:54 PM
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Evo Corsa CX, 23mm, end of story
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Old 01-28-14, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterNearGirls View Post
That sounds amazing! I assume that's a temp fix and he'd corner carefully until he could do a proper new glue job?
I doubt it. Sounds like he just continued to ride on the spare tubular normally - and most messengers don't corner very carefully. I never reglued after having a flat on the road. The rim and spare would still have a slightly tacky layer and that seemed to be sufficient. Didn't race, but I did ride with some reasonably quick groups and never seemed to hold people up on fast winding descents (lived in Tucson at that time so there were lots of descents from Gates Pass and coming down from Kitt Peak).
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Old 01-29-14, 04:57 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by FasterNearGirls View Post
Everyone, they've responded with this:

"None of the 2014 Assault’s or the assault/Strike combo wheelset will be available anytime soon sorry. The Assault/Strike combo wheels don’t come in tubular only clincher.
I have a set of 2012 Assault Tubular shimano wheelset in stock that I can ship out. This is comparable to what you had but it has the CTG braking surface. "

My DV3K actually did have the CTG braking surface.

So it seems the only option that would get me new wheels quickly is to accept the 2012 assault tubulars. I'm just concerned it's not quite equivalent to my previous set (?) . Should I do it?
How much is the 46 upgrade, you would be saving be saving about 20 % of weight and hubs are superior DT swiss
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Old 01-29-14, 07:40 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by kleng View Post
How much is the 46 upgrade, you would be saving be saving about 20 % of weight and hubs are superior DT swiss
It's all about a value analysis. The OP is a guy who crashed at least 3 times in 2 seasons, ultimately destroying a set of wheels but fortunately catted up to 3, so I suppose it was worth it. To me, though, that's crashing and breaking stuff an awful lot. Thankfully, I don't crash that much. I make a very decent wage, but I think that if I crashed that much, even I would be on a much more cost conservative choice, like Boyd's or Williams or the wheel du jour off Chainlove. I think the Assaults are more than enough wheel for a situation like that. Now that I've said that, I'll probably crash and destroy my Zipp tubular 404/808s at the next race. . .good news is that you usually aren't going to make a wheel completely useless in a crash. You may break a rim, but it's not like the entire thing burned up in a fire or something (I hope)
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Old 01-29-14, 09:22 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
It's all about a value analysis. The OP is a guy who crashed at least 3 times in 2 seasons, ultimately destroying a set of wheels but fortunately catted up to 3, so I suppose it was worth it. To me, though, that's crashing and breaking stuff an awful lot. Thankfully, I don't crash that much. I make a very decent wage, but I think that if I crashed that much, even I would be on a much more cost conservative choice, like Boyd's or Williams or the wheel du jour off Chainlove. I think the Assaults are more than enough wheel for a situation like that. Now that I've said that, I'll probably crash and destroy my Zipp tubular 404/808s at the next race. . .good news is that you usually aren't going to make a wheel completely useless in a crash. You may break a rim, but it's not like the entire thing burned up in a fire or something (I hope)
You got it. Even these are pricier than I'd like to risk, but thankfully I had the RAP (Assurance Program / crash replacement) thing.
Corrections - I Upgraded to Cat 2 in 2 seasons (3 in 1 season). Didn't crash at all on the first, but crashed 6 times in 2013!!! Most crashes were on stupid group rides though, like the one were I broke a Hi Mod EVO frame because the wheel in front of me hit a pothole and went down.

Same story with the EVO, too nice to crash. Thankfully I had crash replacement on that too, which took 6 months to get a new one, and had a spare bike - good old Neuvation - won the state crit on her.

So now it's fingers crossed that my Hi Mod EVO, wheels, components, and body stay relatively undamaged!!
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Old 01-29-14, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by coachboyd View Post
A guy from Michelin just stopped by our place and dropped some off (it's really good to be in Greenville) so I'll be testing them out this year. They feel really nice but I haven't had a chance to glue them up yet. Conti Sprinters are very durable and have good longevity, but in the wet they seem to be lacking since they moved to the Black Chilli compound.
Black Chili compound is silica based, which means its better for the wet than the carbon black tread compound they were using before.

It might feel different which is throwing you off.
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Old 01-29-14, 09:50 AM
  #46  
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I think your winning the state champs with your old Neuvation brings up a good point though. We always get so hung up on equipment things, and it is definitely a lot of fun to think about, but the reality is that success at the amateur level is probably about 90% about you and 10% about the bike. Nobody at the p/1/2 level is riding a bad bike. Your racing success is not impacted in a major way by 100g in your wheelset or 5W savings from aero. There is a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" in our sport. A lot.
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Old 01-29-14, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
I think your winning the state champs with your old Neuvation brings up a good point though. We always get so hung up on equipment things, and it is definitely a lot of fun to think about, but the reality is that success at the amateur level is probably about 90% about you and 10% about the bike. Nobody at the p/1/2 level is riding a bad bike. Your racing success is not impacted in a major way by 100g in your wheelset or 5W savings from aero. There is a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" in our sport. A lot.
keeping up with the joneses is better than some grouches who are still riding 3 speed bikes and telling the rest of us that 3 gears is enough and that frictoin shifters are still perfectly usable in races.

Some of us aren't Lance Armstrong, we could use all the help we can get!
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Old 01-29-14, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
Black Chili compound is silica based, which means its better for the wet than the carbon black tread compound they were using before.

It might feel different which is throwing you off.
I would say it was the sliding out in the corners of a wet crit that were throwing me off. Back in the day when the Sprinter was the Sprinter 250 (with the diamond tread pattern), the handling in the wet was definitely better. I used to hope for rain in crits because I knew I had an advantage.
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Old 01-29-14, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
keeping up with the joneses is better than some grouches who are still riding 3 speed bikes and telling the rest of us that 3 gears is enough and that frictoin shifters are still perfectly usable in races.

Some of us aren't Lance Armstrong, we could use all the help we can get!
You're misunderstanding me again. None of us is Lance Armstrong. We all need all the help we can get. It's the constant need to have something better than the next guy that causes the sanity of the spending in this sport to go right out the window. Obviously the bike you gave as an extreme counter example is not appropriate. My point is that Ultegra 10sp is fine. You don't need DI2 to do well. An Evo is fine. You don't need a Cervelo RCa. Assaults are fine. You don't need RZRs.
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Old 01-29-14, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by coachboyd View Post
I would say it was the sliding out in the corners of a wet crit that were throwing me off. Back in the day when the Sprinter was the Sprinter 250 (with the diamond tread pattern), the handling in the wet was definitely better. I used to hope for rain in crits because I knew I had an advantage.
Have you thought about possibly that the Sprinter 250 was just a better carbon black compound than the competition back in the day(there are a ton of things that are added into the mix including natural rubber, carbon black, additives, accelerators, inhibitors, etc).

Currently, the new Pro4 and the Conti 4000s are using Silica in their tread compound, and a ton of people in races have these tires. I would consider running the old Sprinter 250 versus the current field and see how you do.

I'm just telling you from the science aspect, the black chili compound should be significantly better for wet traction. So if back to back testing shows that the older tire is better, then that would indicate that they screwed up on the construction of the tire.

All of this without objective back to back testing is all anecdotal BS. This is why you should never trust the reviews on tirerack or random user reviews.

I used to work as a tire development engineer
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